I’m pretty sure I already posted this in the vortex thread
Crumple f+LK xx CD mixup is for trolling purposes. There is actually no use, but if you use it, you’ll do a really tight cross under that barely crosses the opponent before they land.
Also @Mingo, cr.LP and cr.LK only do 20 damage compared to f+LK’s 70
That’s the way we should all play. Trollbuki FTW \o/
lol troll
In all seriousness though, f+LK does do more damage than her other lights, but it’s only 30 dmg, not 70.
Tc8 crossup:
Ok it isnt tc8… Forget which tc it is… Its her jump cancel sweep tc from tc4… On hit it can knock people the opposite direction, for weird esoteric shit, never seen it done in tourny though, was hoping to one day see sako use it since it has 1 frame timing
-dime
Oh wtf lol. Yea seriously, I only do it if I get a free crumple or stun into lvl3 FA
All the frame data I look at say that f+LK does 70 damage. :c
Kara-throw setup
f.throw -> backdash -> lk.cd (slow input) -> st.mk kara throw
Guaranteed kara throw setup though if you time it wrong it will whiff and allow the opponent to retaliate.
Hien to Super setup
st.LP, walk back, cr.LK xx LK Hien xx Super
If you’re really good with your combos you can always do tsumuji loop into hien and players will never see it coming since they are always waiting for you to finish the combo and tired of mashing dp because you never drop your combos. Especially after a stun. You can even add a c.hp kunai to show off even more and then reset out of nowhere.
You can always h.hp into hien on a stun or setup. Usually catches people off guard as well. If someone jumps at you to punish your kunai afterwords you can always anti air into super in that case.
All valid, but using cr.HP is so risky since it doesn’t always hit a stunned character. Using light moves may have less hitstun but it’s much faster.
c.hp on all stunned characters works on everyone. j.hp into c.hp does not. I know it’s really hard to pull off on Vega and Dan. What I do is use the j.hp j.mk target combo. It really help me personally on the combo itself and makes c.hp into kunai universal.
Made a video on Cl.HP frame traps
Good stuff, but it’s not really viable – Mostly.
The main reason is that you can’t link anything after cls.HP (it’s even disadvantageous on hit!!), follow-up cr.HK is unsafe, and 3rd hit of the TC just wiffs on many crouching opponents.
It’s a risky tactic and involves too much commitment for the little extra damage reward it offers over other options.
The only viable option here is st.MP, cls.HP because it’s a bit easier to confirm off of a Counter Hit st.MP due to its long animation, and decide to either link into the TC8 or go for a safer/advantageous option. But even here, there is still a problem: st.MP(CH) into cls.HP is a one frame link
Normally, st.MP is +6 on hit, so it would be logical to assume it is +9 on counter hit (following the engine’s rules), leaving a 3 frame window to confirm and link into TC8, but it’s not. st.MP is only +7 on counter hit.
Actually, I’ve also been looking into such counter hit set-ups recently, and possible optimized combos out of them, but I found some inconsistencies in Ibuki’s frame data on counter hit, witch I compiled in this document (which I posted in another thread a couple of days ago, but there are no responses so far.)
If you can, please try to record some footage of it and make a video, I can’t do it myself.
The purpose is to go to TC8. Why would the main reason of it not being viable be not being able to link after cl.hp? Followup cr.HK>st.HK is safe if you sjc into tsumuji. It’s also not true that st.HK of TC8 whiff on many crouchers. Only on 4 characters: Chun, Elena, Rose, and Rufus. Only st.HK of TC10 whiff on every crouchers and only TC10 is affected, not TC6/8. It’s viable, but limited because of character specifics. I have been successfully getting CH cr.lp, TC8 multiple times now. I know that F-Word loves this frame trap.
You don’t really need to be able to confirm the counter hit. It’s either a frame trap if it’s blocked, or it’s a counter hit combo if it hits. TC8’s long active frames will allow for more time to confirm into Tsumuji on block and juggle combos on hit. I didn’t know CH st.mp, cl.hp is 1f link. But even if it is, her damaging combos are 1f link in the first place anyway. Except, this feels easy for a 1f link and it does more damage than a double loop. You lose vortex if you do this, but if you corner an enemy and do this, you’ll most likely end your combos into Raida anyway. Plus even midscreen, Raida brings fullscreen corner carry.
Ah ok, sorry, my bad. You’re totally right!! I didn’t know that only TC10 wiffs on crouchers, thanks for pointing that out
About the follow-up SJC, L.Tsumuji is a true block string, but it’s not that safe. st.HK leaves Ibuki too close to the opponent to use L.Tsumuji (-4 – it’s just fortunate that many don’t know how to punish it). SJC M.Tsumuji is safe but has a 3 frames gap between st.HK and Tsumuji, so beware of mashing.
For characters that are too far for a cls.HP to trigger, far.HP (not BHP) can be used too – somehow, to a lesser degree. It has a huge gap (9 frames at best – after cr.LP) but can be useful some times. It is +5 on CH, so with the right spacing, it’s possible to link st.MKxxNeck Breacker afterwards.
Also, TC8 does grant a Kunai set-up, and it’s a pretty ambiguous one if you don’t know how to deal with it. So you can have the vortex still going, but you have to sacrifice any follow-up damage to TC8.
The set-up itself is pretty simple:
- Cancel the last hit of TC8 (st.HK) with a normal forward jump,
- As soon as you land, jump forward with the a very low L.Kunai.
It works if they quick rise, and leaves you enough time for another close range basic mix-up if they choose not to.
This set-up nearly always hits cross-up though. It hits pretty low (from the knees to the heels) so it leaves Ibuki at a slight advantage if they block. Also, it doesn’t allow for auto corrects against most characters, but can be escaped with a wakeup dash (direction depends on character). I’ll try to put together a document (sorry, no videos ) for more details about this set-up and how it interacts with other characters later.
One last note: cr.LP is +8 on CH, so cr.LP (CH) into cls.HP is a 2 frames link – That’s the secret to that consistency
LK Tsumuji is -4 but pushes far enough for a lot of characters not being able to punish. Only certain characters can, and if the player don’t know that it’s punishable for their character, keep doing it anyway.
I have a j.hk setup that covers both quickrise and non quickrise. I’ll try out your setup and probably make a video of it if I can make it work, and give you credit of course.
Also it’s strange that St.MP is only +2 on CH, but there was a meaty Dhalsim combo I found a while ago and Ibuki can even link st.mp into cr.hp
Yeah I know of that set-up, it’s a good one, but I think jmp.HK misses on some characters (not sure who though), or you have to change its timing.
Also, note that if you get a CH off of that meaty cr.MP (but it has to hit with the very last active frame), you can link into BHP (still a 1 frame link) and a beefy combo if you use red focus. Many players can be caught pressing buttons on their wakeup to tech a throw or to quick rise from its awkward timing, so it’s not that rare to get a counter hit from this set-up, so I believe it’s a good idea to look for it.
BTW, I’m pretty sure st.MP only gains +1 frame advantage on CH, not +2.
For the Dhalsim set-up, I didn’t know about that, but you can get cr.HP consistently on a majority of the cast (it even works on Cammy!) from a meaty st.MP on opponent’s wakeup, and many don’t even have to be in the corner.
It’s also possible to combo cr.HP after far.LP on Abel, in the corner using this combo: jmp.HP, st.MP, Agemen, far.LP, cr.HPxxSpecial (generally SJC Kunai to continue the combo). The trick is to aim for perfect 1 frame link on far.LP after Agemen, it will hit meaty mid combo and give just enough advantage to hit with cr.HP. It does very good damage without meter and can be followed up with the regular double Tsumuji loop. Abel is a crazy training dummy XD