^^^ yeah perhaps, i had thought about it, but in earlier testing(months and months ago) i just didnt find that instant kunai actually hit crouchtechs… it might and it will certanly be good if it does, would atleast make her playable. still, she is going to just get blown up outside of point blank range. at the very most she would be a VERY weak version of rufus and cammy. seriously, jumpback kunai nerf was the kiss of death, if it works the way it would logically seem to… wont know till i play ae or see her in action though.
I’m not much for turtling so i dont really care much for the kunai nerf. Ibuki can’t win matches throwing kunais like Akuma can with his air fireballs so it’s not a concern for me. Good players know u can just smack those out the air with their normals or specials any way. Jump back EX kunai already has this property so I wont feel much of a difference with the regular ones following suit. I generally dont kunai zone much in most matchups. The recovery is pretty terrible as it is so when u play people enough they learn to just jump over the small hit box of the kunai and blow you up or just smack it out of the air.
I’m only worried about anything theyr’e nerfing aggressively for her which is less stun on neckbreaks. Which even they I’d like to know just how much. Going from 250 to 150 on regular neck breaks would be significant but with her new buffs it might balance out. EX neckbreak does 300 stun so that makes me wonder how that will change.
They did say they are improving her normals on a general sense so maybe that will mean more range or faster recovery on some of them. We’ll see. I wish they would make f+HK useful. That would be great for her to use vs. characters like Zangief or Rufus if they just did the right things with it. Oh wellz.
I see exactly what you mean. But if this change is as bad as it might seem for her limited footsie game, we still have tsumuji (lk) which I’m beginning to fall in love with as a poke when playing footsies against certain characters, such as Ryu (credit goes to Acqua for showing me its usefulness lol). And as DJ said above, there might be more changes to her normals that aren’t being listed, so best hope and see what happens.
If her f.hk had more range (and a bit more height), it would also make dealing with characters (e.g. shotos) with good low pokes much easier as it would be her go to counterpoke in footsies against said characters. Hopefully they increased the range on cr.mp as well. Hoping they would increase the range in her st.mk but I guess it isn’t going to happen since they would have mentioned it (considering they mentioned the frame start up buff).
Yea f+hk has a bad hitbox, and leaves you on negative frames on block and on hit. I have done this move close to certain characters and completely miss which looks odd. Especially when you are close to a shoto and they use cr mk and you completely miss.
If only it gave at least +1 or 2 on hit then you could at least use it better to beat OS techs, but as of now its too risky leaving you at -1 frame on hit and -4 on block. Its not good as a poke or as a tool to beat OS tech. I stopped using this move a while ago.
I am just going to get good with her core reliable moves/strats… if I start playing again. I have been thinking about a lot of nice strategies recently for Ibuki, so we’ll see.
the problem with tsumuji is its command overlap issue with hien. its basically really hard to control neutral game tsumuji cause of ibukis inability to walk backwards and then instantly bust one out. its like a reverse charge move in that it cant be done walking backwards or has to have a weird pause before it can be done. unlike normal pokes that have no such restriction.
i dont mind her having jumpback kunai nerfed, what i mind is that i DO NOT THINK for a second that they actually buffed her regualr normals enough for it to be a real balance change. bar none she cant zone as well at this point. unless her normals got an uber buff. which it doesnt seem like they did. she was never a character that wanted to go toe to toe with other characters unless she had frame advantage. now she cant even stall the action well and at this point stalling is all that ibuki really did decently. watch any iyo, aqua,clakey etc etc vid and like tokido… they just mostly stalled for awhile until doing what they actually wanted to do:
in ibukis case it is:
jumpin
dash in
and thats pretty much it.
she had to stall with dumbshit like jumpback kunai, wiffed F+mk, neutral jumps, wiffed jabs st.mks st.mps and the like before doing what she REALLY came to do.
same with akumas like tokido that sit there stalling with jumpback fireballs and jumpback fakes and lk demonflips… its all just a stalling tactice for the “real” gameplay.
ibukis stalling tactics which were shit anyways are now non existent. all she can somewhat do is try and induce some fear with wiff buffered cr.mp’s now.
yeah, i dont think im missing anything at all. unless she really did get her normals an uberbuff. which i will happily take since i never liked being forced to stall anyways… if i wanted to stall i would have used akuma, hes better at it anyways and has the better vortex to boot.
Ibuki is fucking super hard to balance and we ALL know this. Command dash being frame advantage on previous hit would be BUST, balancing kunais are really tough and so is issuing their priority, her overhead is comboable to ANYTHING so there has to be some sort of loss to it, her dmg output is amazing and her hitboxes are great against the big guys.
Any slight change to any of these things and she could be BUST and we all know it.
St MK and st lk being buffed is awesome. Dmg reductions on NB can kiss my ass but in the grand scheme of it it will probably bulk out to the same amount of dmg as we did with:
crlpx2-st lp-mk-nb
Because now we will dish out:
cr lp-mk-NB or worst case is with 2 jabs.
So that dmg reduction is kind of…whatever. Hopefully it only goes down like 50 dmg and stun a pop similar to what they did with seths stun kicks from vanilla.
Her new TC is also a great idea imo because it adds a new bit of flavor to her footsie game. She can now either set up for a vortex opportunity OR create a Command Dash mix up to whatever. Or even jump after the attack and mix up from there. It has potential.
The only thing i think we really need is for TC4 to hit crouching characters…that’s it. A faster start up is what she needed for her normals. She simply couldn’t even close to compete with footsies against most of the cast because all of her normals were toooooo slow. This MIGHT be an opportunity for her to compete more at closer ranges.
Also remember, that everyone in the game is changing in terms of moves, normals, ultras, etc. Not just ibuki. It’s not like capcom said…yup, time to hate on ibuki! Nah yo, hondas getting nerfed. lets be happy about what got changed.
Man…im personally excited about jump back kunai falling straight down. In certain block strings you can get some pretty nice CH setups. The only problem was that she jumped back too far to do anything afterwards before. Gotta aim at them feets!
I see nothing but buffs… minus kunai damage (kinda insignificant anyways)
the neckbreaker stun/damage nerf was only right imo
i completely agree about neckbreaker thoough. i didnt even use it much so it wont nerf my game at all. it will however nerf higher level ibukis like aqua and iyo though… but o well i guess, the move did too much stun and damage imho.
Yeah as long as the other issues get dealt with I think it’ll help Ibuki a lot. Honda doing less damage and Rose not having a double sided safe DP ultra will help her a lot. Ibuki’s meaty kunai game is solid for keeping Rose’s backdashing on wake up bitch ass down but of course U2 screws that up. Or well it wont anymore.
agreed. kinda like the sim “buff” sim didnt get buffed so much as everyone else got nerfed.
i think ibukis cr.hk target combo is going to be her most significant buff though… really looking forward to using it. it will force crouchtechs in a safe way taking away the opponents ability to mixup stand and crouch tech… might make her frame trap game more solid, ie higher chance of success on frametraps.
Yeah that’s very true. I did say in above post that the Kunai buff/nerf was going to be monumental. It might make her stronger close range (via blowing up OS techs) but at the cost of one of her main tools during footsies. Though unlike most Ibuki’s, I never bothered to stall or throw kunai’s without the intent to damage, so I never payed much attention to the downside of the change. However, I did use it in footsies but it seems that that option is not as viable (at least at certain ranges vs some characters). As it stands now, Tsumuji might be are most (and only) reliant footsie tool but other than that, we’re going be to forced to wait for an opening by holding ground at safe distance and/or blocking before we can move in and punish. Can’t really play turtle/stall much anymore.
Though I do personally prefer this new change to her kunai. Why not make her excel at one area more so than making her mediocre at every area? Eh… that’s how I see it anyway. Though I do get you what you’re saying and what you mean by it’s a nerf. I think of it as a change rather than a buff/nerf.
Command overlap with Tsumuji and Hien is a pain but I got used to returning my stick back to neutral before inputting the command for Tsumuji. Of course, I still get the occasional accidental hien but I just gotta deal with it. =\ Granted, without command overlap, Tsumuji would be stronger but it is what it is. Even so, at least she still has Tsumuji to fall back to in footsies. It’s not that great but it’s good enough imo. It’s made my life easier enough, making it hard to dismiss it as a tool less than adequate. If only she had a couple of other footsie tools, then her footsie game would be very solid (e.g. more range on st.mk, cr.mp and f.hk). That’s where I’m hoping they fixed some of the properties of her normals. Chances are, if they did, they would have announced it… but we’ll see what happens.
how are we supposed to fight bison/chun/rufus/rose without a good kunai zoning strategy? are we supposed to walk towards them and back them up? if so how? blocking? that will get us backed up. standing still will lead to blocking thus getting backed up. our only option would be to move forward and press our disadvantaged buttons versus theres… thats a losing strategy as well. jumping in is also a losing strategy.
the only thing i can see is fishing with wiff cr.mp and perfectly read lvl2 focus. other than that i see people just walking towards pressing buttons and me having no intelligent response to that kind of pressure.
and it looks like i may have jumped the gun on ibukis kunai going staright down, if so, im a happy camper with all the other changes. they will suit me well.
…not to mention that her sweep is now able to become safe on block though probably not hit confirmable, assuming the opponent can’t duck the s.HK on block (crosses fingers for hitboxes adjustments remedying some of it’s current issues). If it works like lp,mp,c.hk,s.hk…that means we can SJC into Focus Attack as well :). Hopefully it’ll be delayable enough to hit confirm…though i’m not gonna hold my breath knowing capcom lol. But still…sweep is pretty much gonna replace c.mk in alot of situations. It goes under highs and some mids just as well
Her zoning game being nerfed aside… this is also going to make Cammy/Rufus more of a pain as well when they get in. When I’m not backed in the corner, I always mix in jump away instant kunai’s as an answer to both characters throw/dive kick mix up. Gives me room to breath, while keeping them in check… sorta resetting the situation. This isn’t going to be an option anymore I presume.
We just have to learn to block better (lol) since certain characters with better buttons can just walk up without us having much of an answer or ways to keep them in check… Our most reliant tool in said situation is, once again, Tsumuji (lk). We can also fall back on cr.mk, cr.mp, sweep or even slide but those normals are not that great due to lack of range. Still, better to have some options rather than none. As good as Kunai was for zoning/footsie, we still have Tsumuji. One less [good] option but eh…
I’m also a bit upset of the NB nerf (though I should have seen it coming) considering I use it as my main Combo ender. Hopefully it’s not nerfed too much considering Ibuki has very little life. It seemed fair but that’s just me.
=/
Neckbreaker dmg/stun nerf isn’t all that great if you ask me. Kunai dmg nerf is very strange.
Ah well, she didn’t get the buff I wanted. See you guys come AE…
cl, mk was 1 frame? never noticed, I thought mp, mk was…
I never see ibukis hit confirming into NB from the bnb cr lp hit confirm. Why is this? I do it all the time. It does more dmg and stun and leads to more opportunities during vortexing…
???
Am I like the only one who is dreadfully sad about this nerf? I guess i will use TC4 to HK spin kick as my hit confirm.
Also: quick questions…
When you guys do her overhead f mk what combo do you use? I’m liking cr lk to lk spin and cr jab-st jab-mk-mk spin
do you use HK spin in hit confirms to deal more dmg? all spin kicks deal more dmg as they go up…do you use hk or just stay with mk for safety/consistency? I’m finding HK does more dmg so i’m using that to get more bang for my buck.
Well, this isn’t really the forum to be asking those q’s… But I’ll bite.
Lower level ibukis such as myself probably mostly use mk tsumuji cause it’s safe on block and that means that we don’t have to hitconfirm it, we can just do it no matter wait till our opponent wises up and starts to look for reversals. Doing hk tsumuji isn’t as good because it gives less kd advantage than mk tsumuji. Plus it relinquishes all pressure that a blocked mk tsumuji gives, also it leaves ibuki at a disadvantaged state on block, closer than the other tsumujis. So basically it should only be used on hit. Which is where the hard part lies… It isn’t easy to hitconfirm both block and hit and then use 2 different specials, depending on what happened… For instance I’d love to be able to do cr.lp x2,st.lp,st.mk and then go into neckbreaker on hit, but mk tsumuji on block… But it honestly takes alot of concentration, which is concentration that I need in order to block confirm and go for a tick throw or some delayed frame trap/trick/gimmick or something. Which us alot to think about in the heat of battle. So basically lots of players like to keep it simple and only use one special ender on hit, and then use normals to push themselves if blocked… It’s just streetfighter/fighting game 101.