It’s really not. Documentaries are meant to be as factual as possible.
As for your comments about Joe - I’m pretty sure that even if Ian filmed Joe for 100 years you wouldn’t get the footage you’re talking about.
I was gonna bash this because it’s such an ignorant opinion. But then I decided it would have been a gigantic waste of time.
Reading this thread is pretty hilarious. You don’t need a villain. You guys don’t know any of these people irl. They’re all really nice people. Especially Joe and Mike Ross. Those are easily the two nicest players in this community. Trash talk is part of the game, but when it’s not about the game, it’s all smiles and jokes.
None of us are saying that Mike Ross and Joe ARE bad people. We’re just saying that bunch of nice people kicking back together and seeing who’s better at SF4 is not entertaining to watch.
Wrong in so many ways.
Documentaries are about people’s stories being relevant to the audience who aren’t necessarily part of that crowd. Good documentaries will make the audience feel somehow connected to the people’s lives being portrayed in the documentary.
Most interesting documentaries I’ve seen; I share almost NO commonalities to the antagonists/protagonists in terms of what the documentary is focused on. EX: Hobo-shoppping cart racing scene in Vancouver, people who are sexually attracted to inanimate objects, people who are sexually attracted to cars, etc… It’s the ‘human commonalities and emotions’ that the documentary makers capture and portray to the audience that makes us say “you know what, I see a little but of myself in this drug-addicted shopping cart racer…” THIS is the essence of good film making. Although I know what was shown was only the 45 minute shortcut of the documentary; I’ve seen nothing in this documentary that makes me sympathize or relate to any of the characters… To me it just seemed like I was watching a diary-journal, not really anything moving or compelling, just a day in the life kind of thing which is very stale and boring for me since I already know all about this stuff.
I’m pretty sure the film maker wants this documentary to appeal to the masses not only to the very niche fighting game community because in reality; what’s the point of just making a documentary/journal catered for the fighting game community? It’s preaching to the already converterd. Most of us hardcore competitive fighting game enthusiasts ALREADY know everything that was shown so far in the 45 minute short cut version of this documentary… I know Justin Wong is the US champion, I know there is a rivalry between Eastcoast vs Westcoast, I know how tournaments work and the culture of the arcade scene. Show me something I DON’T know amongst these players. What’s their struggles? What are their goals? What are some of the obstacles they face? Etc…
If anyone involved in this film is reading this please don’t think that I’m hating on your project, I think it’s a great idea and I hope the final release does real well I’m just adding my honest opinion on how this great idea can reach it’s potential.
Nice docu ian. :tup: excellent work imo. Can’t wait to see the full feature film.:wgrin: It was strange looking at myself. I’m on the bracket so that was cool.
Co-sign, and where is your dancing white kid Avatar DS? That shit owned all other av’s imo!
:looney:
Yeah, except this is how the scene really is. And there’s still EVO footage to be filmed. You guys act like there won’t be any shit talking there. You guys were really expecting a lot in a 45 minute clip? Really?
EDIT - The av will be back shortly, Larry. lol
I wouldn’t mind it either way just depends on what your shooting for. If your looking to make an accurate depiction of the sf4 tournament scene, you show everyone in the same light and let their opinions/actions define them. Otherwise you could easily make Daigo look like a super-villain that Jwong is trying to conquer and there’s plenty of footage to support it as well.
Gooteks comes off really goofy and he doesn’t even consistently dominate, he’s top 10 in the USA no doubt but he’s no phenom. He’d be an epic failure as a villain unless he gets bodied by an Xbox live player and you can cut that whole “where you gonna get the players from xbox live?” scene with it.
This exactly.
I’m going to keep coming back to King of Kong because it’s a great and successful documentary about video games. Everyone keeps saying that the EVO footage will make this movie better (and I agree) but in King of Kong how much of the movie is spent on Steve playing Donkey Kong? I don’t know the exact figures, but I’d bet it’s something like 10% of the movie or less. Everything else is about the characters, their families, and how they act outside of the game. Instead of EVO footage, I think Ian needs to be going for more of the personal stuff. I want to see Justin Wong’s family talk about him, his friends who know nothing about his SF status, other amateur players talk about him.
Also, taking Ian’s limitations into mind, it’d be way more beneficial to him if he really focused the film on the East coast trying to take down the West and Japan. Like he said, he’s only one guy with limited resources, so he can’t possibly be getting all this personal footage for Gootecks and Mike Ross without some help. I assume that getting East coast footage would be much easier for him.
Hell, Mike Ross should partner up with Ian though to help him get footage. Didn’t he major in film or something similar? Also, in a previous episode of Gootecks’ podcast, he said he had a good HD camera and was already planning on doing player profiles or something, so you know he has the equipment.
Exactly.
It’s not about Street Fighter or fighting games, it’s about the player’s/scenes’ personal stories that will make this film intriguing. I definitely agree on seeing the personal lives of these players and completely agree that the Evo event will do very little to develop this story the way it is being portrayed right now (judging from the 45 min shortcut version) it would be be more journal/diary footage which is bland and not ground breaking in terms of film making. If I want to see Evo material I’ll watch the Evo DVD and I’m sure the mass audience doesn’t give a flying shit about what happens at Evo. In reality it’s just a bunch of gamers who are competing against one another from different parts of the world. To put this into perspective, would you care about a oven mitt making competition? Hell no! But would you care if there was enough human elements in the characters that are competing in this event so that you could see yourself in them, to root for one character to want one character to fail, etc? The Evo event should be the climax and the ‘battlefield’ of the character’s stories and documentary shouldn’t solely rely on this event to capture the audience.
If this is going to be anywhere near as compelling or as interesting as I think it could be it’s going to have to dig much deeper into the personal lives and stories of the players lives and their personal stories. (which I know will be difficult and awkward for the players since they’re always going to be on display even AFTER this film is released whether it’s in tournaments or on videos or even on this forum unlike other documentaries’ characters where the people are just people thousands of miles away who the audience will never come in contact with again apart from the screen) but i think this is where the film needs to get to if it’s going to be where it should be.
IDEA: As a hardcore competitive fighting game enthusiast and even just as a normal person, I think shining the spotlight on Triforce and EMP Arcadia would be a GREAT addition to this film. There’s a lot of backstory and struggle in him and his organization that would be perfect for this film in my opinion.
You know why I want to see Bang the Machine?
It’s not for the US vs. Japan match in the end.
It’s because of all the clips I’ve seen of it on YouTube.
Mr. Wizard arguing with the guy who’s name escapes me right now.
The US team in someone’s living room commenting on how different Japan’s scene is.
The guy who, while driving his car, explains how he treats Street Fighter and his business/career similarly (sorry I don’t know the history of the scene too well).
Those are the moments that get the general audience going. I want to see these people in their normal lives and I want to see how they act differently, how they’re treated differently when they’re in the scene.
I think introducing a little more conflict into the story would be a good thing, not just another series of matches from Evo. I still think the best way to do this is introducing a sort of villain into the story, but somebody mentioned playing up th East vs West, and focus on the east coast taking down the west coast. I think that would probably make for a much more interesting story, focus on how at the 2 tournaments currently featured, the west coast guys came out into east coast territory to try to win their tournaments (Mike Ross, Gootecks, Combofiend, etc). Make the last arc focused on East Coast flying out to west coast territory, and trying to claim the title for good.
It’d make for a story that people who have no interest or knowledge in SF to hook into the story and want to watch the picture, just like King of Kong. You don’t have to enjoy Donkey Kong to enjoy that movie, but after you see it, you want to play the game. That should be the angle you’re going for.
You definitely need to play up some of the key matches, but I’d recommend doing the bracket matches as a montage with east vs west using the same awesome graphics you have now, only stopping to focus on the key matches with key characters in your story. Focus on the players stories and how they interact, and you’ll have a really interesting story that will appeal to more than the community.
Ideally I’d love to be able to show this film to my Wife/Mother/Friends who don’t really know SF and have them enjoy it. My brother, whom I actually play SF with on a regular basis, didn’t have his attention held for more than 10 minutes. I’d love to see the reach of the film go beyond this, because it’s so great.
the donkey kong documentary was mean
and it had a villain in it. but they guy was really a douche IRL so yeah, it was easy for em haha
yeah I watched this with my girl. she only payed attention cause I tell her about my passion for the game so much. but she admitted it wasn’t anything special or anything she’d watch on her own time. i.e. didn’t speak to her at all
like it’s been mentioned. stronger characters, more conflict. PLOT.
actually that’d be great. when I rewatched the film it became really clear to me. I didn’t know where it was going or why the movie was going where it did. some sort of direction or setup would probably go pretty far in making people pay attention. show them a conflict and then show them how it unfolds into a conclusion they don’t see coming.
east vs. west vs. japan
gootecks vs. everyone trying to make his dollar.
Big ups though, but it doesn’t speak much to anyone outside the know.
Incredible job Ian
Started watching it by myself all of a sudden my girl and all her friends were glued to my pc watching it.
Personally it left me begging for more. Even the people i was watching this with, who dont know a thing about the scene became interested in the character. The ladies love Joe of course and you’re left wondering just how far Gootecks will go with his SF career
Being at each of those tournament i gotta give u props on how u captured the tense finals. It was like being there all over again
Seeing Larry give his two cents was too good. Final Round was THAT good this year
Overall i think this was pretty dope, best part is that its not even finished yet. Cant wait for what EVO will bring to this project
good job Ian, alot of hard work on your part to ring this too us. Its much appreciated
Although some of the ladies in my apartment (who are about to get tossed out) have a request…
More Joe.
watching now. so basically sf is all about making money now because a few people dont wanna work like the rest of us. shout out to the hustle, might as well get paid if you can, but i dont know, something about it im not feeling.
It’s interesting reading all the comments on this piece of work. This ain’t a big grand epic triumph over all story. It’s a focus on the street fighter scene and follows the story of some of the big people who live it.
Could Ian have pushed harder for even more emotive connection? Maybe. Maybe that wasn’t his intent. As it is(and it IS a work in progress) I like what he’s done. Sure, I can nitpick: Some more interesting camera angles, better equipment, more story… but he’s certainly got an idea and it is developing. I hope with the additional footage to come at Evo this project of his is even further fleshed out to a more complete form.
King of Kong made was really lucky to come across a character like Billy Michell. You can edit all you want to make somebody the villain, but editing won’t get you some of the priceless and crazy shit a guy like that does. Without him there wouldn’t have been a King of Kong.
Personally I think that documentaries are saturated with these typical narratives and should be left alone. Exploring the life of the players is certainly a great idea though.
edit: I can’t wait for the HQ torrent. Bring it on!
umm, lol? Watch closer.