I play both Vega and Bison, so trust me when I say that st. fwd will stuff you slide. For some reason though, Vega’s cr.strong can beat a lot of bison’s pokes. So I would suggest that… if he jumps, jump and air grab or if he’s trying to cross you up w/o a knockdown, slide to get away. Backflipping will get a foot in your face. Takes good reaction time so just be prepared for it.
Wow, thank goodness I copied this thing to my clipboard. Thought I posted it but actually just “previewed”. Anyways…
This is why I find Bison to be a bad matchup.
1) In my experience, Bison will always win the race to build meter.
[LIST]
[]His ground game is very strong. His block strings utilizing normals into light sk can’t be punished. If Bison was standing right next to you and did a light sk and you blocked it, both you and Bison are at neutral frames as he has 0 frame advantage when hitting on the first possible active frame. The problem is, with his block strings, he pushes you farther away from him, so when he finally does light sk, it’s somewhat to completely meaty, and that gives him frame advantage.[/LIST]
[LIST]
[]His version of our FBA recovers very quickly when he lands. That is, the animation of him landing is literally him placing his feet down. When we land a whiff to build meter, Vega hops around before we can do another walldive.
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Additionally, no one really talks about this, but his air-to-air against Vega is very good. Yes, you can air throw him when he’s flying towards you to headstomp (outside of EX). What I’m trying to point out is that he has aerial defensive options against your own aerial attacks, and can also shut you down.
Finally, Bebop says to learn to break Bison’s charge. But you gotta think how hard/unfeasable that is. Lets say you’re playing footsies with him. So what does that mean? Both you and Bison aren’t holding a charge and are just using normals to poke. But eventually, one of you is going to either jump in or crouch to start a charge.
Lets look at jump ins. No matter who jumps in, it’s not in your favor. Lets say you jump in with Fierce or Roundhouse. Now you put Bison into block stun and do your pokes xx light rcf. That’s it. You’re done. He’s gonna answer with light sk when you recover, put you on block and start his ground assault strings.
Lets say he jumps in. His air to air Fierce will answer your air throw well. So what else? st. RH, or back dash c. Fierce? Yes, it’s very good, but neither attack causes knockdown, so while he’s falling down, he’s holding that charge. When he lands, he’ll go immediately to sk.
So to wrap it up, Bison definitely has an advantage in the matchup. Calling it 7-3 may be a little too lopsided, but saying it’s 5:5 and it’s dead even would be unrealistic. I can see it falling into 6:4 territory, but nonetheless, like most matchups, he can make mistakes and compensate. We only have to fuck up once and it’s ggpo.
True, but the knockdown is worth the risk imo. Though at Vegas’ max slide range, the Bison won’t have much reason to be throwing out standing forwards. He’d have to have pretty good reactions to counter it when you slide.
My point was, that Bisons who like to throw out lots of kicks, usually stay standing more than they should. They like to wait and see if you’ll attempt a jump in. Sometimes you can tag them with a slide for the knockdown from max range to catch them off guard.
How do u keep the pressure on him tho? U cant jump at him and if u come from straight ahead ur gona get a headbut or disjointed hit boxed jab into some O-throws or slap combos.
You can use meaty df.hk because throw beats Oichio. It sounds like you don’t even play Honda honestly because he’s not some super force of nature, Vega’s quick enough that he can get in on Honda and punish him easily.
You can jump in but you just don’t telegraph it so he can buttslam you.
Buttslam is such a funny nickname for a move.
“What’s wrong? You look upset.”
“It’s nothing, just keep thinking about how I got buttslammed yesterday.” lmao
I don’t play many hondas. the one i do play is a pretty good player and switches between turtling and offense. Ur saying to use meaty DF HK, but how does that help me get in close if it gets me a headbutt to the face? If i do a meaty one or one to try and get him with the tip, his jabs come out so quick and have so much priority. It’s not like honda is walking around the whole match, he’s usually crouch blocking unless he’s trying to cross me up
Maybe I’m just playing it wrong, but I dont see what u guys r saying about honda not being difficult. He has the same defenses that blanka does (special move wise) minus the electricity. I know I can bait his buttslam and headbutt, but if i try to beat the move or punish and am less than a frame off, i eat like 1/5 of my health or miss the chance.
The only thing i’ve been able to do successfully is when he turtles, do wall dive to his side to break his charge then go for the izuna drop or make him whiff a buttslam.
anyone have any vids demonstrating what things r effective? I havnt seen any good vids for vega vs honda. sfdojo vids all have vega losing and those nico vids weren’t much diff.
i too think people in this topic underestimate honda
not a 5 -5… at all
definitely a 6-4 for honda. he’s a wall, i’m sure if a honda wanted to chase you down he wouldn’t just spam headbutts, he’d spam his mean footsies and aerials to make sure you won’t get past him then he’ll just push you to the corner… not good.
honda’s really not slow at all, actually very similar to vega, has sick air-to-airs and footsies, luckily headbutts can be punished but if you lose a mask and you get headbutted…
You overestimate Honda. I play both Vega and Honda extensively. If Honda has an advantage vs Vega, it’s because of how terrible Vega is, not because Honda is all that strong.
Vega’s problems vs Honda
- no consistent way to do damage
- no mixups or crossups to take advantage of when honda is down
Honda’s problems vs Vega
-vega outpokes honda
-vega can dodge/escape honda’s mixups
When you say stuff like ‘spam his mean footsies and aerials’ it makes you sound ignorant because there’s no ‘spamming’ of any footsies or aerials.
Honda is also extremely slow and his dashes are terrible. The problem is that Vega’s a very, very shitty character because he’s high risk low reward - Honda hits hard and if he gets lucky a few times you can get owned.
ps. if you check the general forums a lot of people overestimate Honda - people have been putting him in B tier above a bunch of other better characters lately which is just silly.
I usually get outpoked by Honda’s head. 
can u describe how vega out pokes him? I am not asking who should be ranked higher, im saying honda vs vega. ur saying if i poke honda, it will stuff all his poke attempts due to speed/priority?
ur saying u play honda, but do u play against a lot of honda/vegas while ur using vega/honda? I am open to ur advice/input, but can u be more descriptive in what moves exactly work for vega against honda, safely, MOST of the time? cuz right now it seems like if honda lands one or 2 headbutts he can sit back and crouch the rest of the match. Do u have any vids or strats when playing against honda?
Just a quick question-
Does Vega have 1000 health or 900? I have no idea. It APPEARS as though he has the health of a 900 stamina character… it doesn’t feel like he takes damage like, say, Bison or Ryu.
He has 1000. It might seem he has less to you because of the fluctuation between losing and gaining his mask. But from the start of the round, 1000.
Yeah, I was talking purely WITH the mask on. Well, his ‘real’ health is probably something floating around 900, when you consider the average damage he takes with the mask and without, over the course of a match.
Vega’s c.jab and c.mp fuck honda’s shit up and beat out a lot of stuff that honda tries to do.
I used to play a lot of honda’s as vega and now occasional vega’s as honda.
As Vega I relied on a keep away game coupled with countering headbutts with slide or ex walldive - Honda likes to charge a lot so ex skyhigh claw on the other wall is great against him too.
I’d just backflip out of buttslam attempts and throw, and c.jab, c.mp, and df.hk are basically your only real moves you can use. Also roll and the occasional jumpin.
If honda tries to jump in you can stuff his jump in somewhat reliably with a reversal kick unless it’s a crossup but honda’s crossup isn’t that good IMO (other hondas might disagree)
Vega/Bison is 5:5.
Bison can’t SK you in cr.mp range, it gets stuffed. You have to watch to not let him jump in on you, that’s when he charges. You can jump straight up to avoid sk that you think are likely to come.
You’re all getting imprisoned by his scissor kicks. That’s stupid. Bison has a hard time getting in on Vega, if Vega knows how to play.
Sorry man, but the japanese are right here, it’s 5:5
How do you mount an offense then against Bison?
Uh no.
Vega’s vertical jump attacks are fucking terrible you’re likely to get punished or at best tech a throw.
No he doesn’t - the Japanese don’t know shit about Vega because none of them bother playing him ; they just slap ‘5-5’ on matches they dont know anything about, like everyone else does.
For AA sure, but to use as a neutral jump attack on a grounded opponent? You have to be out of your mind.