I don't understand this

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1

I have been an avid player of Street Fighter since SF3. I mained Ken in the game. I never really got into any serious play, played a few local tournaments, won one of them. Went to the arcade on some days and spent the whole day there playing people.

I was excited when i heard SF4 is comming out. SF4 was released. At first i didn’t like it. But then i warmed up to it a bit. The only thing i would change about SF4 is changing the reversals to be 1 frame windows. I main Balrog in SF4

Then i thought, SF4 is based (loosely at least) on SF2, then i remembered SF2HDR

So i thought, if SF2 is supposed to be the best in the series, i should try it out.

I bought HDR and fired up training mode with my man Balrog. After learning a few BnBs and some ways to combo into Super. And a link or 2. I decided to hit up multiplayer.

To my suprise i did not find what i expected.

I was not rewarded for doing combos, i was not rewarded for landing my supers in a combo, i was not rewarded for punishing wiffed SRKs.

I found that Spamming specials won the day, Landing a super randomly won the day. Wiffed SRKs have 1 frame recovery so its nearly impossible to punish.

At first i thought, "Ok, i just gotta get better, maybe ill go watch a video with some of the old pros in it “Daigo/Alex Valle etc.” What did i find?

This

[media=youtube]68tQ3qNQuRU&feature=related[/media]

Seriously?

Both of them Daigo and Alex, did nothing but spam fireballs the ENTIRE time, with the occasional Hurricane Kick/Tiger Uppercut.

WTF?!

Why is SF2 considered such an amazing game and why do people say it is better than SF4? Seriously, i dont understand this, this game looks like the epitome of noobness.

Someone, please explain it.

Also found this vid of my main Balrog getting owned by a fireball spamming Ryu, couldnt do anything. I know, because im on the recieving end of it ever time i play HDR.

[media=youtube]9w6g9WEdLWo[/media]

2

Run while you still can.

3

Oh my god, oh my god.

You should delete this post, right now.

You have a headbutt, the best super in the game, and a floating fierce to get through fireballs, stop being a scrub and deal with it.

Or go back to third strike and your braindead parrys

4

Since this thread will not lead anywhere anyway i’ll share this for some comedic value:

Contentious. says:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=195389 This will not end will.
Stray says:
Rewarded for doing combos?
Like how?
Is the game supposed to eject a biscuit or give you head or something?
Contentious. says:
I will marry you.
Stray says:
<3

I love this woman.

5

apparently you didnt read my post.

1st of all I prefer SF4 to SF3 now that i have gotten used to it.

2nd im new to SF2 if you werent paying attention so i dont know wtf a “floating fierce” is

3rd Yes i can headbutt through fireballs but the fireballers recover so fast it seems impossible to ever get close to them.

6

I know where you’re coming from, I really do, but the only major thing you’re right about in your post is that you’re not there yet.

If doing random specials and supers is winning for you, you’re playing against some fairly bad competition. That is not how the game works. Whiffed Shoryukens are excellent ground for punishing, you just have to be on the ball. Combos will help when you get an opening, but combos alone will not win the day. ST and HDR are games of positioning and grabbing at an advantage.

Fireballs are a major part of that positioning. You use them to force your opponent to make mistakes, and then punish those mistakes accordingly. Yes, occasionally it does result in a fireball fight, but even then the strategy is at play, though you may not see it yet. If you watch that Daigo vs. Valle match and you see “nothing but spamming fireballs the entire time” then your understanding of SF2’s projectile mechanics is lacking.

And believe me when I say I’m not using this as a way to talk down to you. I think those of us who started out with SF2 and have watched the game change over time can pretty easily forget how foreign it seems to someone whose initial experience with Street Fighter is with the more combo-heavy later games, especially the up-close-and-personal style of SF3.

7

09 strikes again, oh wait…

8

Figured i would get at least one person that isnt a dick.

So what would you suggest i do to learn some of these things? I know i have to play the game, but is there any kind of reading material i could find that would give me a better idea of what is going on? or perhaps a video?

Thanks BTW

EDIT: At this moment i am reading through the Balrog thread on these forums in its entirety, hopefully i can get some tips on Balrog in general.

9

I’m impressed.

Watch these.

10

I’m surprised nobody has linked you to the Sirlin tutorial videos yet, which are a good start.

Beginner Tutorial (part 1): [media=youtube]d0cFs5mHQC4[/media]
Beginner Tutorial (part 2):[media=youtube]OoILSEQL9jE[/media]
Intermediate Tutorial: [media=youtube]jCapuhsOMcg[/media]
Advanced Tutorial: [media=youtube]t8dD3K2_Pz4[/media]

Beyond that, you’ll find a wealth of knowledge on the game in the Super Turbo Wiki. While it is generally geared toward ST most of it also applies to HDR, and where it doesn’t (specifically in individual character changes), the difference is noted. You’ll find the ST wiki here: http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo

EDIT: Shari beat me to the tutorial!

11

Actually the playlist i linked seems to be missing the last part.

12

Watched the videos and read the wiki, will be giving it another go online right now, thanks for actually turning into decent people and not flaming me all day.

13

I’m surprised nobody linked you this:

[media=youtube]Q_E3n0hZZug[/media]

but the spacing game of throwing fireballs is why everybody here loves SF2

14

I don’t think your thoughts are being conveyed as well as they could be. It sounds like your punishing, and punishing gives you damage, and damage is a reward.

It sounds like you’re too used to SF3 and SFIV. I had this problem, too, so I know what you’re talking about. SFIV is only very loosely based on SFII. The games share almost all the moves between common characters, and for the most part they work the same way (as in a flash kick is used for anti-air) but there are a lot of nuances that make a big difference. Like you mentioned, spamming specials can often win the day. This is because some speicals in SFII are just that good. Ken’s jab DP for example. If you blocked Ken’s DP in 3S, you got plenty of time to punish it, so random DP was a terrible idea. In SFIV he has better recovery, but you could still punish it. In SFII, it has so little recovery that it’s hard to punish, as you mentioned. That’s really just part of SFII. Like I said, I had the same problem, but if you keep playing you get used to it.

A lot of supers are relatively safe on block, unlike 3S, and do a ton of damage, so random super is a more viable tactic that is in the other two games. Again, you just have to adjust to it.

People responded negatively at first because your original post reads like a list of complaints. SRK gets a lot of these already so any time anything even remotely like this comes up, they just kind of rip the oiginal poster to shreds.

It just sounds like you’re frustrated because SFII doesn’t really play like the games you’ve played before. This is completely understandable to me (I still hate Smash because I think that game is just too whack). You just need time to get used to a new game. Even though it has the same characters as SFIV, it plays a lot differently.

15

I lawled on this!!! :rofl: Thank you for that.

World Warrior was raw, I loved it… it didn’t contain the 1 button move super bullshit combo take half your life in many ridiculous games.

HDR is the closest thing to it. And I love it.

Just curious, has anybody ever talked to the developers of SF4? Did they ever play the original original sf2 in 92?

16

SF4 had potential, but they had to screw it all with the hit-confirm BS, throws with start-up and ultras. They have just guessed newbies would lose 2 out of 3 rounds against a good player most the time, so it would amuse them if they could often get a round out of a inherent mechanics that would give insane damage in the (frequent) event they were about to die. Also, it sucked to them that in SF2 one had to time their jump-ins and close attacks right so as not to get thrown, so they just made it harder and punishable. IMHO, they have not learned a thing out of EX.

17

I think with SF4 bringing a lot of new players into the SF thread this kind of thing will be common. The thing that makes SF2 different from other fighting games is the same thing that will frustrate the new FG players that are trying HDR coming from an SF4 background. In SF4 and other “newer” FG’s you can go into training and practice mode, learn all these big damage combos and Ultra set-ups, and then go out and do OK against live competition.

In SF2, you can start off by spending lots of time in training mode, learn all of DeeJay’s or Ken’s big damage combos, and then go into live competition and get demolished. You can start off by learning all the combos you want, it’s not going to do you any good because I’m not going to give you the chance to land any of them. There’s no way to learn in training mode how to get by a really good shoto’s fireball trap, for example.

SF2 is a game of spacing, zoning, and mind games, and you can’t even begin to start getting into the mind games without a certain amount of experience under your belt. It’s more of a game of “feel” than any other FG I’ve ever played. These new players are going to have to go in knowing that the only to improve is to play a ton of games and you’re going to take a lot of lumps while you learn all the little things that go on in a match that aren’t obvious at first sight. What might appear as “boring fireball spamming” matches actually have a ton of tiny little magnificent details that the new player won’t even begin to notice or see.

SF2 is mainly about all the little details, not the big flashy moves, and that’s why I love it.

18

couldnt have put it better mad possum. hrd is all about strategy. you can wil without doing huge combos. and btw typhon, once you learn balrog, you will find that hes top tier so keep at it. the mind games and strategy of hrd is the reason why i play ST2 over any other STF games

19

Mad Possum: You rock. I would rep you hardcore.

Just to elaborate a little more on what Mad Possum generously glanced over - any newcomer to SF2 is going to lose A LOT. A LOT A LOT. I am not exaggerating in anyway. I know this because I was in your boat, Typhon. I was a 3s player who loved it to death. I didn’t get what the bogus was about this game called ST. “Wtf,” I said, “How can anyone play this dumb game! So simple and random.” It wasn’t until I forced myself to understand its appeal that it all hit me -

The adrenaline rush
The Speed
The fear
The clutch reactions
The mind reading
The satisfying out-zoning of your opponent

I loved it so much I didn’t play any other game afterward. I am not saying ST is better than your 3s or SF4, as they are all good games in their own right. Just it takes awhile to appreciate what is going on in a high-level ST match.

I hope you have fun playing ST.

20

man, mad possum well said!!! you summed up perfectly what sf2 is all about. Even tho i find it funny when I get mail calling my guile boring or spamming, it shows me that those ppl dont understand the subtle strategies involved in sf2. Even doing nothing is a strategy in itself cos it can cause an impaticent player to lose his cool and make mistakes…especially if the time is running out.

One of the main reasons that I wasnt attracted to sf3, sf4 and the other other street fighter variants is lack to strategy it takes to win.

Learning these strategies only comes by getting your ass kicked and learning what works and what dosnt and what a person does after you do a certain move. And even when you think you have your main character mastered, somebody else comes along and humbles you, so the learning curve never stops, but you find that after a while it becomes 2nd nature and you just automatically do these things. I mean I’ve found that even how you open a round can sometimes determin the outcome of that round…sf2 is truly an amazing game.