I dont like new players going right into god tier teams

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
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Um. You can count the people who have won Marvel Evo on one hand. None of them are “just another guy.”

The problem with taking false pride in using low tier is that the game itself doesn’t award you any special badge for picking crappy characters; the game itself only awards wins and losses. So it’s fine to love your low tier, and Marvel online provides a unique opportunity to pick ghetto fabulous teams because most players are so bad, there’s certainly no fun in beating up a million Guile scrubs with Sentinel, and most good players are not taking it too seriously to begin with, but you’re taking it too far. If you REALLY wanna play low tier and you lose to top tier, that is YOUR fault, not the top tier user’s. Your options are: get better with your low tier; pick a more solid low tier squad; incorporate a top tier or two into the team; give in and pick a top tier team; or play a different game. Hate the game, not the player. Whining about the other person’s character selection is not really a solid option.

I don’t like this perspective. If these guys all switched to Thrax, would they magically be the absolute best? We don’t know.

Would a poker player be better if he ONLY wanted to win with two pair? If he felt it was “dishonorable” to win with three of a kind or a straight, etc.? If he opted to fold when he had a draw at a “top tier” hand? Yes, two pair can often win! Depending on how you play, you can even make two pair (or no hand at all) beat better made hands (representing better and forcing a fold in this case). Just like, against top tier, low tier teams with a solid plan can bide their time, weather the storm, and often land their hits that matter. But over the long haul is this a winning strategy? Some tools are just better.

This last Evo, would you argue that the best players didn’t end up in the top 8, or the finals?

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You are wrong… the game does award you more for winning with low-tiers than gods… do you need a msg popping up and patting you on the back for you to know you just pulled off something sweet? of course not…

You are correct when I mention those guys… we don’t know if they would be top 8 or wtver if they swithed teams… maybe… maybe not…

We also have no idea if the evo top 8 are really the best in the world… or even if ALL the best came to evo at all… for all we know there is some broke ass guy in russia who would have had a shot if he had the cash to get to vegas… who the hell knows?

And no… an evo winner isn’t just another guy because there aren’t a lot of em and the competetion is crazy… i agree full there… … and yet your statement does in no way disprove what I said… because if next years winner does so with low tiers… against top tiers… then he would be more highly respected by 99% of the games following… …in fact… if a true low tier team made top 8… they’d probably get more respect that year than the winner…

To me… its EASIER to “win” with low tier… because if a low sqaud faces a good msp and wins even 1/3 or 1/4 of the matches… they just did something a lot harder than the msp did… thats where the JOY comes from…

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oh wow…that’s why people don’t bother with this thread/your posts. that is a complete scrub mindset madtitan. just stop. you clearly aren’t cut out for fighting games…unless you can choose these top tier characters and beat these top players (which you never will be able to), shut up. they’d probably own you with low tier too. (spending a little time with low tier, if they even need to, just incase)

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beats I don’t understand how someone with your mentality stuck with this game long enough to get as good as you are… do you not agree with anything I said? Do you not gain more joy out of beating top tier with low? Do you not see the accomplishment after you’ve done it?

Calling me a scrub? I’ve played a long damn time and can get wins on most people… I know a ton of characters really well… and I have respect for others who show skill…

I’m sorry I don’t suck the dick of god tiers and the people who use them… if that makes me a scrub then I guess I’m a scrub… happily…

And yes… its a lot fucking harder to go 1/4 against gods while using low tiers than it is to go 3/4 using gods… a hell of a lot harder… a hell of a lot more special… you seem to think anything that isn’t targeted at winning evo is scrub… think that 99% of the people who play this game don’t play for fun… or that its impossible to know anything if you play for fun…

yer just another loser at heart… take the easiest path to the cheapest victory and pretend you are special…

Your skilled at this game… but as a person… all I ever see from you is ass kissing to those who’ve achieved more tourney success than you… and shitting in the face of anyone who hasn’t… there was no hostility from anyone in this thread prior to you showing up as your standard d-bag self… just people discussing the philosophy of high vs low tier and how they feel bout it…

Why don’t you tell us how fucking well you did at evo this year? fucking jackass… you do nothing but promote philosophies based entirely on tourney play and then you fail fail fail fail fail at evo… why not fucking win and then come back and remind us all what a badass you are and actually have something to hang your hat on…

At least I play because its fun and know how to take pride in winning with the toons I love… you play for nothing but victory at evo… and then fail to achieve that… in what I do… im no scrub… in what you do… yer the scrub… why not see it as reality instead of the one that makes you feel better bout yourself.

I don’t give a shit… winning… losing… all fun to me… coming here to talk to people about this game (those who don’t make a career out of being a cock) is enjoyable to me even if I never go to fucking evo or any other tourney. It’s fun… for a lot of us… til people like you come in…

Why not stay the fuck outta threads that are “scrub” in your mind… or if you do pop in… just put a tagline in there that says something like “Beats here… imagine some negative shit… thats what i got to say… later” and you’ll about cover it…

I bet you don’t talk that kinda shit to strangers in the arcade do you? only to people online who can’t reach through their monitor and choke the life out of your ego ridden, god tier whoring, yet still losing at evo ass…

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Except that it doesn’t, and you won’t be able to find logic that makes it true. In the arcade, one person keeps playing, and another goes to the back of the line. In a tournament, one person is eliminated or sent to losers’ bracket, while the other advances. Online, one person gets a win and increase in rank, and the other gets a loss and a decrease in rank. Nowhere does character selection come into play whatsoever. You don’t get two wins online or advance two slots in a bracket for winning with Servebot or some shit. You don’t know how to have a conversation. Your false pride is not a reward doled out by the game.

Scrub mentality. How long have you been in the fighting community? An unknown has NEVER shown up and won. NEVER. You do not get good in a vacuum. It just doesn’t happen. You need competition and you need GOOD competition. Even a decade ago, before the internet really took off and before youtube existed and before us old bastards had to ship “underground” VHS cassettes cross-country and treated them like gold, unknowns never won. Ten years later, today, with the pervasiveness of the internet and youtube and online play, are you SERIOUS in your assertion that some Akirakid is living in the middle of Siberia waiting to beat top players? Please. It’s never happened and it never will. People don’t get good at competitive endeavors in isolation, and the internet and online play and forums like this one have mostly obsoleted the idea of isolation in the first place. Pockets of good players from Hawaii to Brazil are known about now because of the internet.

What the fuck are you talking about, “respect?” The players who win harsh tournaments are respected, period. If you don’t respect the people who are already winning that is because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Degree of difficulty is nonsense. Go learn to play the harpsichord or something. The metric for success in fighting games is beating the person you’re playing. The challenge comes from the other person. Putting extra challenge on top of that intentionally is more false pride nonsense. People who’ve been playing the game already for a decade like most of the good players posting on this board play low tier teams for variety in a game they’ve already played to death. They aren’t playing to swell their ego. And when the chips are down it’s still usually going to be Thrax, MSP, Combofiend, Matrix, Scrub. They are simply the best tools for the job in a game that is very, very well explored.

I will leave your other post to beats, lol. I doubt it will be worth replying again anyway.

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madtitan:

no, I agree with pretty much nothing you say, ever. you are stuck in your own little world and apparently know nothing about the FG scene.

yes, you have a scrub mindset. oh wow, you can beat some people…gs lol…I don’t think you know a lot of characters well actually, from having played you. you know a bit about some characters. but there are definitely players better than you with the characters you pick. it doesn’t even matter, i was talking about your scrub mindset

you are not special because you manage to pull out some wins with low tier against people who aren’t even that good with top tier. VDO/Zaza/MikeZ deserve it because they’ve beaten GOOD/BETTER people. you aren’t even that good at low tier (from what I could tell that day we played)

you reveal yourself more and more as a scrub. especially for just labeling the good player mindset as “dick sucking”

everyone plays this game for fun, lol. get off your high-horse. you can never compete against them using top tier, so you try low tier…even then, you can’t beat moderate players with low tier.

“easiest” “cheapest”? seriously. scrub-talk. you need to rethink fighting games, seriously. someone please link this dude to the “victory 101” (that’s what they were called right?) reads…

I’m not shitting in the face of everyone who has not. that’s how we can tell you’re full of shit, because now you’re just telling blatant lies/blowing things out of proportion. I wouldn’t say I was hostile in my last post. but your posts make no sense/are scrubby and you just disagree with these other people giving good posts while you make no sense.

the rest of your post either doesn’t make sense/is just made up/comes from nowhere/doesn’t apply so again, I won’t bother.

again, please rethink about playin fighting games, read those articles I mentioned, come to your self realization…and then maybe you’ll understand.

I’ll repeat it again, you aren’t even good at low tier. compared to how shortly I’ve been playing “low tier” seriously (hardly long at all) compared to the masters like VDO…and for me to beat you like I did…seriously…

and enough with all the other baseless crap in your posts too :tup:

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I enjoy playing with my business team (Colo/Sent/Tron), as I have since soon after Sent became unlocked in the arcade 9 years ago. I trained with that team hard at my poor departed arcade where the better players there would be considered elite by members here. These guys really ran me through the ringer, but playing them, I got markedly better.

Although I want to win, I know it’s against the grain to win against god teams and placing in a tourney is not going to happen, but that’s fine for me. I’m not playing them to make a statement, I’m playing them because playing them feels natural and I understand how all three work and it maximizes my enjoyment of the game.

I’ll take my wins and losses as they come. If that’s a loser mentality, fine. But every time I face a god tiered opponent, it’s practice I need to play my team to the maximum level I can. This is keeping in mind that the best I can possibly do with this team will never match the best someone can do with the standard god teams. I don’t get mad about AHVBx3 or Mag/IM infinites on XBL, I just know that next time, I have to play better not to open myself up to them. I do play to win, but I know the limitations of the choice I made in my business team.

I was just trying to make this post as a counter to what Madtitan is saying. Every post he makes is not helping his case at all.

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I think you missed the part where I have fun win or lose… and even had fun losing to you… and learning a couple things while at it…

Everything about your response suggests that once again… anyone not playing to win at the top level should shut up and not enjoy playing and talking about this game… “rethink fighting games”… so because i didnt beat you im supposed to not enjoy this game?

I never had a thing against you… and anytime you or anyone else proves me wrong… I bow to that knowledge. I never tore you down until a minute ago because I don’t do that to people… it doesnt make me feel good/better about myself.

I don’t label god tier play as dick sucking… I label the notion that winning is everything and using god tiers no matter who your opp picks as dick sucking and/or god tier whoring.

Most of what you say might apply if SRK was some form of boot camp for tourney hopefulls… but for 99% of the people here that isn’t the case. It’s a goddamn forum we chitchat in for fun… and people like you ruin that fun because… what… you enjoy it?

Yea beat me 4 strait and my buddy 4 strait also… that anak of yours is nice and mean… but if you think that is some justification to be an ass whenever you feel like it… you are wrong.

Much of what I said in the last post was me losing my temper at the sight of you once again popping into a thread randomly to say some negative shit outta nowhere.

I’m well aware that I am not amazing at this game… and that a few wins here and there over the top on psn don’t qualify me for evo…

I’m normally the nicest guy around… but somehow your ego pushes every button I have… …and yes… i dunno if you even realize it… but you do this to people all the time… again… and again… and again… it wasn’t very hard to search for your posts and see… why not try it… you might find that your quite the dick on a regular basis.

I’m no scrub… at least not in the traditional sense… I have played and loved this game forever… the only thing about tournament play that interests me is watching an exciting match… and its sooo rare… b/c watching an msp try the same combo over and over and over and over again against another msp who is trying to dodge that combo so that they can try to land the same god damn combo… is not exciting to me… no matter how hard it may be… or if its the two best damn players in the universe doing it.

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you clearly miss the parts of my post where I point out you clearly being an ass. I don’t care if you have fun. you need to also realize that everyone who plays top tier has fun.

nice job trying to sound nice in this post, while your previous post is just full of BS. I’m also sorry because I’m telling you that you and you’re way of thinking about the game AND the way you posts is wrong makes you think I’m an ass.

you can do what you want, but when you’re posting scrubby stuff and trying discredit actual good players, that’s when I came in and told you your mentality of fighting games is clearly wrong. nice job trying to turn it around into me being an ass/have an ego/ignoring said points

you definitely like to switch words around or make shit up. we see what you called dick sucking. now you’re trying to switch around…talk about stuff that wasn’t even mentioned. please stop putting words in peoples’ mouth

please stop applying stupid shit to what people say. respond to what people post, don’t try and change the words around. that’s another reason people will not take you easily.

I’m not being an ass, but I guess calling you out, telling you to rethink, telling you that your wrong, and telling you that you’re thinking like a scrub is being an ass to you…lol

i know the posts I make, thank you very much. I would say I’m not a dick actually. at least until the person deserves it/is usually a dick first.

now please actually think about what I said. try to comprehend it. try to not change/put words in peoples mouth. thanks.

not sure when I’ll give up on you anyway, because some people just seem to have the scrub way of thinking embedded in their brain…

but keep calling my words trying to turn you around so you’re not so scrubby “negative” lol. nice defense mechanism

some of the others like dr deelite were too nice trying to reason to you with good posts. they didn’t do shit and then you started spouting asshole/scrubby shit/ACTUAL NEGATIVE SHIT (unlike my posts). not really thinking about their posts…I’ve had enough and came in to try a different approach. perhaps nothing will show you the light.

it’s funny trying to take the advice of some of these people like 9revolta and madtitan who’ve mostly played only low tier…and the advice of shoutzula/myself…and the top players like demonhyo, jwong…who have mostly played top tier…but we’ve come back and started playing low tier, and we are better at low tier than them. pretty much like my first post said.

very rarely will you have the VDOs/Zazaz/MikeZs who start and stick with low tier. they also have the right mentality/skill/environment to succeed. but starting out like them hardly happens. also like I mentioned in my first post…

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I did say that the last post was largely me losing my temper… I ranted at you… sorry

I do consider what you say… but you need to find a better way to approach a reasonable discussion… popping in and tearing people down is no way to get them to actually listen to what you have to say. This whole thread went from discussion to a bunch of crap that should be locked by now… as soon as you came in…

you seem to think that I can’t respect the skills of you or shoult or anyone else and still disagree about some things… that’s crap. its not supposed to be one elitist vs another elitist type of discussion. doesn’t always work that way. i don’t even know why you bring shoult into this discussion… he’s an very reasonable person compared to you. when he thinks you are wrong… he gives reason and will discuss… in fact the only time I even recall posting disagreement with him… i used the words “i have great respect for your skills… but… this is how i feel”… if thats not considered acceptable in terms of polite disagreement… i fail to see what is.

…you seem to disagree and then if the conversation doesn’t end strait away then the other party is a scrub.

come up with wtver snappy retort you like… plenty of people know wtf I mean when talking about the elitists like you around here… far to many in fact… loyal SRK members who have to stomach this type of behavior on a daily basis.

Can you not fathom that some of us enjoy theorizing low tier/various starts even if you don’t agree with those strats?

You use the words… “tell you your wrong” as tho you are god and determine yourself exactly what qualifies as so… when my entire point of contention is that some people get more fun and joy out of winning with low’s against gods… its a matter of opinion and personal experience for everyone… you cannot be “wrong”

dr… in terms of the false pride thing when winning with low tiers… you say the game doesn’t reward hard fought, low tier wins… anymore than it does easymode god tier wins… and you are correct… its you and those watching that reward you for that… it IS about pride…

You guys seem really really threatened when I suggest that someone who loses 3/4 against you and then gets a low tier win on your god team… may be getting more out of his 1 win that you do for yer 3… but… thats just how it is… unless there is money on the line or a tourney at stake… there is nothing but pride and braggin rights involved… and you get more of both winning with low tier against high… thats really all i was trying to say… and you guys started a war over it…lol

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you see…that’s where it’s just you turning things around/not listening because you don’t want to hear it.

it was getting nowhere with DR Deelite trying to reason with you. then you start tearing people who do well in the game saying it’s the characters. YOU were doing the BS first. I had enough of seeing it, so I told you to stop and told you that you had a scrub mentality (as many would agree) and THEN you ranted.

don’t try and turn the shit around.

YOU need to find a better way to approach the discussion. and this game as a whole.

I said nothing like what you’re saying in your third paragraph. AGAIN you are assuming things/putting words into my mouth/putting thoughts into my head. actually, I’m pretty sure shoult wouldn’t bother/would give up on your type of posts, much like Dr Deelite did (and like I should do). PLENTY don’t bother with your posts straight from the get-go…for all these reasons I’m posting

because…you keep coming off as a know it all/low tier master/etc. etc. like 9revolta did/thinking you deserve respect/thinking you’re special because of low tier. you came off like this right from the start. and then you showed yourself to more and more of an ass and a scrub.

you can’t agree, so you call me an ass lol or say I’m being negative…when I was only replying to your negativity. and here I am, still trying to reason with you.

switching words around again…I explicitly called you a scrub because of you discrediting top tier players, not because I disagreed.

no one, unless they think scrubbily like you/can’t take the stuff we’re trying to tell you, agrees with you

you were not theorizing low tier or strats. please reread your posts.

god…you really make yourself out to be dumb in your posts…

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At the point you came in… I was not discrediting anything. I was saying… in a nutshell… “sometimes you get more fun AND respect winning with lowtier”

and I used vdo, zaza, ect… as examples of people who did just that.

which apart from anything else… was opinion… nothing more… dr… for instance gave his opinion to the contrary of mine. I get that… respect that. He seemed to get that it was simply opinion even if he had plenty of his own to offer in opposition.

I’m gonna stop now b/c this whole argument is friggen stupid as hell. People do have the right to their own opinion and if it proves wrong to them they will know… they don’t need some elitist dude jumping down their throat.

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good. since you seem to totally ignore points against you/switch words around I’m done as of now too.

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Marvel’s got a lot of variety. It’s fun to play top tier teams, and it’s fun to play low tier teams as well. In a competitive environment like tournaments, it’s all about who is best, and you have to use the best tools to win. That means top tier. Complaining about top tier in a competitive environment is stupid - you don’t F1 race drivers using stock cars because it “takes more skill” to win with inferior tools - that’s just silly.

In casual play(and I associate player matches on xbox live with casual play, for example), there’s a much bigger spectrum, since not everyone is playing to have the best chance at winning. Sometimes people want to try to win, but using a suboptimal team for variety. It’s like some 7 foot dude playing pickup basketball with high school kids. Could he win by dunking for every point? Sure, but how fun is that? Games tend to be the most fun when there’s a good challenge involved. So you’ll see some games with top tiers, but you’ll also see some games with lower tiers. Both kinds of games are fun for those involved because they’re appropriately challenging. Is using a low tier team going to train you to win Evo? No way. But you can still play competitive games with low tier teams against other low tier teams, as long as you recognize that not everyone wants to play that way. Some people want to play at a high level of competition using top tiers, and some people are going to want to play a lower level of competition using low tiers.

People make up their own rules for games all the time - nothing wrong with that, as long as everyone agrees to them. Some people don’t like to play with assists, some people don’t like to play top tiers, etc. Just like how some people like to put $500 on free parking in Monopoly. As long as everyone involved agrees to these extra rules - it’s cool. When there’s disagreement, then the natural game rules come into play - and then you better be playing top tier or be prepared to lose.

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Look it’s actually really simple, at the character selection screen P1 can move around and pick whoever they want and P2 can do the same. WHOEVER THE F*CK THEY WANT. IT’S A GAME. Like it and play it or don’t, but it is rediculous to think that your mental approach to the game should be shared by everyone, whether your preference is low tier or top tier. If it truly bothers anyone that much, I would maybe suggest a new game. Maybe an RPG where you can just read a story. There is no cheapness in that, other than the cheap thrills from the CG chicks.

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lol…though people actually do tier the characters in RPGs (when you have a party of multiple chars at least) and some of them are just low tier, so they only use the top tier ones. but it doesn’t matter in that sense, since you’re not playing to win or to better yourself with a tourney-viable team…since it’s 1p only :razz:

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god help us all when dissidia comes out and we gotta tier these guys out…lol

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With all the shit you’ve been spewing, this is the best you can come up with?

So you’re happy when you get a couple of fluke wins? Because that team of yours is garbage. A couple of lucky wins doesn’t validate this team at all. Comparing it to teams like VDOs’ is a disgrace.

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don’t worry, he beat 2 “highly ranked” (like that means anything) MSPs…lol

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LOL I was trying to dumb it down, but people are still arguing? Are Jimmy and titan the same person? Seriously titan I understand that you obviously hate MSP, but instead of working to beat them your tactic is to out random MSP? Come on man, if you only live for 2 wins a night against random MSP’s you need to set your bar a little higher, maybe that’s why you are content being at your current skill level… To be better you must have drive, or simply admit that you are not capable and/or have no interest in getting good/better. But AGAIN its a little rediculous to think that people who are simply trying to get better as “whoring top-tier”, or they’re not having any “fun”. That is such a blanket statement which also happens to be false. That would be as rediculous as saying “Those who chose to play low tier can only play low-tier cause they aren’t good enough to play top tier so they have to try to win with gimmicks” See how the argument can easily and reasonably be flipped around. I respect the fact that people try to expand on this game by playing more characters, but at this point in the game’s life you need to prove your point. Go place top 8 in a major and show people this game isn’t done evolving. When people were arguing in the SB4 thread about Daigo losing to console characters, Ghaelon said “BET IT OR STFU”. I believe that quote applies here to an extent as well.