Honestly if an issue involving Justin Wong devolves into people bitching/defending Noel Brown I think that’s a pretty good indicator your chosen hobby is a fucking cesspool.
It’s unfortunate some people were giving Noel shit, but try to stay on topic if we can. This is the moment to prove to ourselves that we can have a grown-up discussion. Not to mention this thread will become enough of a shit storm as it snowballs.
I was under the impression MvC3 teams loser’s finals was agreed upon to be 2/3 before the match started. I’d love to hear Humbag’s perspective. If that was the case, there’s nothing wrong with agreeing to use the default ruleset (clearly posted on the PowerUp website), and there is no stipulation saying that there has to be some sort of symmetry between WF’s and LF’s match count. Those assumptions are as bad as deciding to do 3/5 for a goddamn team tournament in the first place.
EDIT: 2/3 or more in any team tournament has been proven over and over again to be tedious for the players and not that interesting. These originated from some obsessive-compulsive impulse of tacking on multiple matches on everything to make it “less random”, except for TEAMS it multiplies the tedium n-fold because you have to do all the player switching, button checks, character select n times more in a best of n match. 1 hour for a single loser’s finals is not cool. I believe some exhibitions even occurred OFF AIR due to time constraints, just pushing for a 3/5 is unheard of and superfluous for a team tournament. I’ve already been in those, and it stops being fun very quick when you’re playing musical chairs for an hour with a few minutes of playing in between.
I have had this situation happen to me a couple of times and while it does suck, it’s not worth sacrificing the entire tournament for it. If anything those games both sucked and were hella hype because of the situation. Only reason why this is a big deal has more to do with the lack of tournaments than the situation itself. If there were more tournaments, people would get used to random pairings and wouldn’t bitch that much about it in the long run. But right now few players participate in tournaments enough to get used to tournament settings.
Yeah Noel, I mentioned you in another post on here because I was under the impression that you ran the brackets. I know you usually run the team tourneys at majors so I thought that was on you. Apologies for the misunderstanding!
I think I already know what Evo’s action is going to be, but I’ll just wait and see…
Ok, it’s been resolved, he apologized. Shut up and let it go.:tup:
I agree, there’s nothing else to talk about regarding Osirun.
BTW, regardless of what the facts are, it doesn’t change the integrity of mvc3 teams was violated the moment this alleged misunderstanding killed the other team’s momentum entirely. If you don’t know what I mean, please watch MvC3 teams LF’s. It’s like Humbag’s team was replaced with pot monsters. I would have no problems with the outcome if everyone thought 3/5 and then they lost, even though I still find that many sets on teams ridiculous.
Want to clear up some bizarre misconceptions about why tournaments are run they way we run them:
1: Randomly seeding like a 200-400-man tournament is a terrible idea and just because a computer randomly placed names in brackets doesn’t remotely equate to “fairness”. You’ll just see terrible players placing slightly higher, you’ll create the most godawful, lopsided Top 32 matches you can imagine, and the matches people that would be the best matcups and best entertainment will only happen in pre-arranged special events and MMs. Yeah that sounds great for the scene to grow as a sport, spectator and otherwise.
Plus if people flew for $300 round trip to play in your event, let alone everyone is PAYING hard-earned money for a quality event, if you think it’s OK to have them play first round or be in the same pool you’re a jackass. If I were new *or *OG, no way would I ever drive back to an event where I drew someone I play with every week because the TO didn’t believe seeding was “fair”.
We seed players by SKILL and just not REGION because a TO can and should know who the high tournament placers are, and every tournament is treated like it’s the beginning of the playoffs in a major sport: You seed based on past performance. We collectively have a DETAILED, DOCUMENTED history of past player performances. You don’t have the Lakers playing the Heat in round 1 because you threw all the playoff team names from both conferences in a hat and WHOOPS LOL WELL IT WAS RANDOM SO IT’S FAIR
If you as a player want to level up, you should WANT to meet a top name to try to beat them, not hope you railroad a bunch of no-names to get a higher placing (in which case no one will care anyway if you didn’t play anyone really good). If low-skill players advanced because the great people eliminated each other in a poorly seeded bracket, I fail to see how this shows who the best players on that day were, and I fail to see why having poor players get farther because of generous seeding makes a tournament better.
I can just speak for myself and SB, but it’s pretty easy to seed pools. You take 2-4 players you KNOW have a strong tourney history, place them at opposite ends of the pool, and just fill in the rest, separating players by region. Easy.
2: This is not a point about PU because I didn’t see what happened – but AFTER people qualify in their pools, they are qualifying for a NEW bracket (while maintaining who came out of winners AND losers in each pool) for that game. Pool 1 winner does not by SF law absolutely have to play Pool 2 winner in the new Top 32, because the Top 32 can be a NEWly seeded/properly regionalized bracket.
Of course once that NEW Top 32 or whatever bracket is underway, there is no reason to change it in the middle of it.
The more I think about it, the more likely it’s going to be just a slap on the wrist. Even if they take their EVO points away, those guys are still going get some kind of special treatment when it comes to seeding at EVO.
This stuff has been going on forever, here.
All politics. Top players keep fellow top players at the top. A lot of it even happens inadvertently.
Adjusted brackets is just the tip of the iceberg. Tops share secrets of gameplay amongst themselves, get plenty of leeway in reference to DQs, among a bunch of other stuff.
Top players stay getting accommodated, and unknown players have their backs against the wall in every event, and have to battle so many things that have absolutely nothing to do with the video games themselves, that they’re playing. You can have a player sitting there waiting forever for their match, and can’t leave because they’ll be DQ’d, so they sit around without getting any food whereas some top player could be out grabbing a bite to eat and laughing with some of their bros becoming as relaxed and mentally prepared as possible for their matches.
Players get coached too, a dude will tell a guy how to handle a matchup, so they stay ahead.
This shit is totally unprofessional. I find it maaaaaad ironic(I guess that’d be the term), that a dude is named “the professional” but is one of the most overtly unprofessional players I’ve seen in the scene. It’s like if Dark Prince were to name himself The Humble.
How is ANY of this even allowed to get through? I’ve also been a victim of improper misuse and miscommunication of brackets in the past. I’m NOT going to go into details either, because it’s pointless, it was years ago, and I only cared about playing the video games.
It’s completely unfair, and it ends up being a competition that isn’t 100% about the game being played anymore, but a plethora of other factors that favor things that have nothing to do with the skills that are being put to the test. It can weigh a lot mentally, too, but some players that are at the top or have been there for awhile themselves, probably forgot a long time ago. It’s easy to get comfortable with it too, especially with how the forum and stream viewers respond to things with massive disrespect, or how info could be posted up on the forum and then someone gets personally attacked saying it’s wrong without even trying it out for themselves. It’s easy to get pissed at the forum and then think nothing of it, when it comes to taking advantage of being in a top position.
All some of these players get is a sorry? What about players that bought plane tickets, or drove a far distance and soaked up gas?
It should just stop, but it’s not going to, because it’s been going down for years, anyway.
Just watch the videos for a quick summary on 2.
Keep in mind that the new bracket in PowerUp is not Top 32, or Top 16, but Top 8 for PowerUp. And regarding how Top 8 was seeded, the videos sum it up nicely. Namely:
“Justin would rather play Inthul” was a serious consideration in the Top 8’s “seeding” (again, look at the video) Spooky was noticeably distraught because this is clearly not something done using well-established methods such as your 2nd point.
of course they will and i think a lot of people will continue to accept it, but it’s clear there are plenty of people who do not and are tired of the bullshit these guys continue to pull
Seeding is fine, but I don’t really agree with it when there are no concrete results to base seeding off of. When its just the judgment of the person making the brackets, thats way to subjective, especially for majors. The natural tendency is to favor your local players. Most anybody who follows fighting games probably knows who the top 3 players from any given region are, but all the guys that are just below that are a lot harder to keep track of. There’s no way to know if your local buddy who always places top 8 is better than the guy who traveled from out of state and places about the same in his local tournaments.
I knew this tournament was going to be garbage when I had to play 2 staff members 1st day.
2nd day I ended up waiting over an hour for a player(who was a staff member) to finish playing MK9 and AH3 before he could play me.
I was DQ’d for complaining.
Yeah, this.
Keep it classy
Thanks for the clarification man … yeah that’s what I hoped hadn’t happened lol.
So many people don’t understand how Top 16/32 works, I just wanted to throw a point out there so people don’t think that ANY floating after an initial tourney starts = corruption in all cases.
I hear you, but aren’t past tournament results just that? I mean I only wanted to speak for myself, but IMO for TOs that travel to majors themselves, are apart of the community, and read results threads, I think seeding is pretty easy to do as objectively as possible, even for a 400-man tournament. Out here in East Coast/Midwest most of the TOs have been apart of the scene a long time.
Besides, I don’t think most people seed by skill that heavily except for the top like 5% best players at the tournament. Regional seeding is fair for those locals in your example.
To people complaining about staff playing games and professionalism: when people helping out with tournies are getting paid because the event is THAT successful, then I see your point. But this is still a community-run scene and the TOs are players too. If they do a poor job in your opinion with their bracket that’s one thing, def speak up about that, but there’s no prob or conflict by letting them in games IMO unless they do something egregiously shady. Don’t just assume some dude doctored your bracket because he played in it if he gives you no cause to think so.
Why is this an issue, exactly?
I’ve thought about volunteering for tournaments before. I’d love to help out but I simply haven’t had enough time to do it at any of the tournaments I’ve been to. You’re saying I should have to pick between participating in the tournament itself and helping to run it? I can’t do both? Why would any player volunteer to help if it also meant that they couldn’t participate?
Fair enough, but then there needs to be a clearly established seeding and not just based on the big name players. If each EVO season there was a ranking system, fair enough, but if not then it doesn’t work.
Again, my opinion.
I’m adding, I don’t mind the initial spreading out of friends. I’d hate to round 2 play my best bud in a tourney. However, then you are making a bracket based on locations and quality of player.
I think for a Evo qualifier points tournament there should already be set rules that can not be changed in anyway to help prevent this kind of thing from happening. For an example once you reach top 32 the bracket should not be touched anymore.
I can respect that opinion about TO playing in their tourneys. I guess I simply see it as they have a job to do and that is it. I also played in tourneys in the early 2000s where there was little organization and TOs rigged brackets like crazy. Never anything big, but it was just more common issue.
As for seeding. It’d be ok, but there needs to be an established rule set or point system that travels from tourney to tourney. Once that is done then I’m behind it. Until then, guess work is not a fair way of establishing.
Again, all comments coming from the back row.