Zero has plenty of derp. He’s consistently thought of as S-Tier in tier discussions. j.H, Buster, Raikousen, and sword normals are all EXTRA derpy. The extra work comes in the form of execution, but that does not really make zero less viable.
Don’t ask me to prove you wrong when you put up no evidence yourself.
I said he has minimal derp. He doesn’t have paint by number combos, thus he needs more work to do any type of ToD combo. Tier lists are not based on derp. They’re based on what the character can do - no matter how easy or difficult it may be. If what you’re saying we’re true Zero and Viper would be D-tier at best.
Funny that you say buster is derpy. To be honest it wasn’t more derpy in vanilla, but it was way more effective an combos were a LOT more easy to get from a buster to raikouzen cancel. And I can’t believe people still don’t know that buster into raikouzen is very punishable.
Normals being great doesn’t mean they are derpy IMO. Against inexperience Zeros that abuse his blockstrings, it becomes predictable and punishing any whiffed normals become easy.
I will give you something though, j.:h: is pretty derpy. Not only many people rage over this move, but Zero players can just OS throws while throwing this out there free. From what I have seen, it’s difficult to punish. According to KillerKai and Sleepy(?), it’s way more easy to stuff it now and you can actually punish it but I haven’t tested it.
I don’t feel derpy at all playing Zero, especially when I have to complete a full combo.
No. Lol.
That isn’t minimal derp btw. His hitboxes are insane and his hurtbox is hard to get to. That’s extremely important.
Let’s through out the term derp though. Your point about Zero not being a tournament character is simply not true, he just isn’t represented often. His tools are better than nearly all the cast and his combos that don’t TOD lead to awesome resets.
830k isn’t all that low either now. It fits the generic mold of top tier characters save Wesker.
See, I don’t think of derp as ease of use. I think of it as being extremely advantageous in most situations with little risk. I think it’s a term to tossed around and completely unwarranted for some characters.
I called the buster derpy because if you play even just an average spacing game it’s a tool that you can abuse to hell. Also, it helps make Zero safe.
About it being punishable, most “derpy” moves really are punishable. We call them derpy because they’re still incredibly good and normally hard to punish.
The argument we’re having is pretty silly though, we all are acknowledging that Zero is a great character. We just have different opinions on his tournament life, difficulty of use, and derp-ness.
Oh, I kind of get your points now. We pretty much agree.
I thought of derp more like Magneto with Psylocke or Yun in general. Mash that cr.lk and that A2 and you got yourself a dead character xD.
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For one, Virgil owns Zero’s normals for free. Dante eats everything but Zero’s j.:h:. His hurt boxes have been changed for the worse - at least on his 
.
I said Zero is not a good tourney character and it’s true. You gotta realize, all other tourney characters do the same damage much easier. They have more HP (at least 900k). You can ToD 830k by accident. With all of Zero’s tools and dumb hit boxes, he still has to fish for Buster shots to get in. Ever wonder why?
Zero’s my favorite character to use, but he isn’t an ideal choice for tourney play. Other characters give you more for less. That’s a fact that can’t be disputed. It’s proven. He’s not represented much in tourneys because of it.
Glad we could communicate.
I disagree completely still. Vergil and Dante do not own Zero’s normal, especially if Zero gets in (which he is completely capable of). Nerfed or not, his hurtboxes are still above average. Dante doesn’t create damage much easier than Zero – Dante is frequent tournament character. This is more of a personal thing, but I think Magneto gets damage for only a little less work than Zero (In Mags defense, he needs less assist help than Zero).
There are a lot of reasons why characters aren’t represented in tournaments besides viability. Favoritism, execution, and several other factors are all relevant to tournament character choices.
I’ll agree to disagree. We both like to play the character - that’s enough for me.
Agreed.
On a side note, it seems you are in a similar boat as me with your teams. I just don’t know who to play anymore.
I am thinking about screwing team composition and just playing my favorite characters:
Zero/Dante/Thor (or Chris)
I really like Chris and Zero. Played it a lot in vanilla. It’s just Chris is this weird hybrid between keep away and combo monster. You have to know when to rushdown and go for your combo opportunities. You also need one assist to cover his blind spot and help Zero somehow. His Gunfire assist is pretty dope for Zero because it’s kinda invisible and really fast. I also wouldn’t put Chris on anchor unless you can really play awesome keep away alone. His XF3 is awesome though.
Still have no clue for my Zero team, but for Viper I’m messing with Viper/Spencer/Doom.
CTG, why not Zero/Viper/Strider? That team seem godlike.
I am also having some character loyalty issues because I really want to play Zero+Strider, but it’s hard to fit them together. I was thinking maybe Dante, Viper, Doom. Most probably Dante because of Jam Session.
When I play Zero/Dante/Chris I tag in Chris if and after Zero dies. Chris benefits highly from Jam Session.
I’ve really tried to make Zero/Viper work and it’s OK, but there are too many better options. And Strider DHC is horrible. I’ll give it a shot and see what I can cook up in training mode, but both Zero and Viper are gonna rely heavily on Vajra.
It’s not that bad. I found out the other day day Legion>Million Dollars does less damage than Legion>Sougenmu ( Raikouzen>Buster>:l: Raikouzen>:h:Ryuenjin). The only problem is Zero>Strider, which does low damage. Wesker+Zero DHC did kind of low damage but they were still a good pairing.
It works with Dante Jam Sessiom? I tryed about half an hour… and done only once… Do you have any tip? I Want to found a combo extention on Ammy and Shuma… the sentsuizan + buster cancel doesn´t work in that chars… And I still don´t get the timing for the new double raikosen combo…
It’s very hard and impractical with Dante now; you’re better off doing the lite steb ender (remove the first raikousen, everything else is the same: otg sentsuizan, s, buster, raikousen, TK sentsuizan).
I dont know about you, but the fact that Zero can ohk anyone anywhere on the screen with 1 or 2 bars, is pretty scary. I know its execution dependant, but if you dedicate yourself enough it shouldnt be a problem. Its not like the Lightning loop is a derp hard as Dante’s shot loops.
A little late to the previous page discussion but my 2cents:
I kind of ragequit certain SRK forums because it seems all people wanna do is dickride the latest combo video instead of talking about “practical” stuff like matchups and non-combo (“boring”) stuff. I used to play Zero in tourney with Zero/Dante/Akuma (popular Zero team) but found I could get similar results with Wolverine for much less effort. After months of Zero practice I literally took just a week for Wolverine to be up to par, tourney results were more consistent and I was placing high in some very stacked brackets (in. Evo top placers). I’ll take simple and efficient anyday over flashy if it means placing higher at tourneys.
The most sucessful tourney Zeros I know of are Marn, KillerKai and Flocker. Marn got most of his wins from Magneto rushdown and his Zero footsies and mixups are really good, his combos are very basic. KillerKai also plays a really basic, spacing game and relies just as much on Task and Wesker. Flocker plays like Viscant, simple gameplan of mashing on high priority assist while making the opponent agitated about Phoenix with a gdlk point character. Nini is really solid from what I saw on the CC stream, but I only saw like one or two matches. Frieda is extremely good as well, he has some stylish but still practical combos (has a nice Zero/Dante DHC glitch setup, but doesn’t use lightning loop). I’m sure all these players could pull off tons of cool things in training mode, whether they choose to utilize it in a high stakes environment is something completely different.
You actually don’t have to do much with Zero to be effective, if you have good footsies and blocking his buster and high priority normals will take care of themselves.
Vanilla didn’t have a long lifespan but it’s debatable how practical LL is as a “BnB”, for sure some MarlinPie-level execution god could pick up Zero, but then again, even Marlin drops combos and Zero leaves little health for costly errors.
Ultimate Zero is really good and does great damage for fairly practical stuff (as shown in Nini’s vid). I might dust off Zero now after playing Wesker for a while. You guys have some cool tech, it’s really helpful to check in here once in a while.
quoted for truth.
I dunno about guys… but I play MvC daily and learn to do the combos that you post them here up to date… I even picked vergil based on the videos.
and still… sometimes I lose easily cause of 1 mistake I did with zero…