I don’t really see this problem but that’s probably because I watch japanese players mostly. Where pretty much every character gets high level play, even bottom tier. 
lol…high level play meaning winning tournaments? or just participating?
everytime i watch a video with elena or Q (american players never play these two - unless it’s combofiend with elena), about 1/10 win a match -.-
I thought long and hard about how 3s could be rebalanced, and to be honest, I’m more interested in either
a) what would get Capcom to actually DO IT
b) how to HACKKK 3s roms so we can do it ourselves
I’d like to think money is the only thing capcom cares about so…money incentive?
This isn’t smash…
if people see the reasons why maybe they could really do it…
ppl miss the point like illum did. its not that u see low tier more (that would be nice =]) its that at the high levels of PLAY (not WATCH) the worst match ups should be 4/6 not a bunch of 2/8’s or 3/7’s. keep the uphill fights just bring the angle of the mountain you gotta climb down a teeny bit to 4/6.
4 BEING YOU. THE 6 BEING THE MOUNTAIN… hammer mountain… lol
if 3s was balanced so the WORST match ups were a 4/6 then i think they would make money off selling the game. here is a mini essay on it based on my opinion.
- casual gamer aspect
if it was in hi depth (sharper/wide screen zoomed in-out 3s sprites) with the revamped balance then just call it a new title all together. that reason would bring the casual gamer to buy it cus 3s already is one of the best looking 2d fighting games ever made. games have come out after it with sharp hd but 3s has the animation that those games lack hard. u put 3s sprites and keep there fluid animation and put that hd shine on it, that right there is what makes it into a new game of 2009-2010 and hold its own BETTER than whats new out there now.
- the casual gamer how it relates to the more serious player aspect
if 3s had hd graphics it really can pass as a totally brand new game to the non hardcore sf player. and to us players who don’t care either way and just want it for game play that’s rebalanced that’s just icing on the cake. keep the hit effects the same and don’t go crazy and make them polygon 3d fireworks and they’ll be no complaints from anyone.
- serious player aspect
if they didn’t sharpen the graphics, a 4/6 ratio as the worst match up would be all the reason anyone whoever remotely understood the tiers in this game would need to buy it. it could come out on xbox live arcade and sell for 10 bucks there would be no reason for anyone who plays the game now (or ever has) not to buy it or at least try the game out.
for myself i’d spend a full 60 bucks on a rebalanced HD3S if it came out on computer or xbox360. because if they ever truly make a re balance of 3s they would have to consider if the casual gamer will buy it in stores, meaning it would HAVE to be in HD. the game already is beautiful it just needs that hd shine and it’s 100x better in game play/visual looks than kof12 (instead of just 20x better since kof12 has hd).
i hope what i said wasn’t long winded, the only purpose for this response was so that any actually suggestions to game play balance changes can really be taken seriously and debated at a higher level. true balance isn’t ever achieved unless everyone chooses the same character but at the same time if there was no uphill battles to fight, a lot of the depth and techniques used to win and get better would never be discovered.
High level as in YSB’s & Hayao’s Hugo, Sugiyama’s & PinoAB7’s Necro, Kuroda Q, Yamazaki’s 12 beasting. I dunno what changes could be made to improve the game, but since this imbalance doesn’t seem to get in the way of health variety in high-level matches between top players. I personally would not change it.
You guys realize it’s literally impossible to make a “balanced” fighting game, right? There are too many characters with different playstyles and attack properties, some are bound to be “easier” to win with, but solely in the sense that they’re easier for a player to learn using them to their full potential. Don’t forget “tiers” and “matchups” are numbers based on W/L ratios in Arcades, they’re not supposed to mean anything more than a rough suggestion to “what’s good” to aspiring players. Because ultimately, it’s the player behind the character that will make it win or not, not some made-up, arbitrary classification.
Every fighter has a handful of characters that are popular (for whatever reasons, I’m not talking solely about their in-game capabilities) and attract a lot of players. Ever considered that maybe there are more good Ken players than, say, Yang players because Ken sees a lot more play from every kind of player? Tiers are a shitty way to gauge anything other than what the preference of the overall playerbase seems to be.
^no
nerf chun’s priority + subtract one gauge from her sa2 + Extend gauge for Yun’s GJ = Balanced 3s
OR make her SA harder to hit-confirm from cr.mk. OR nerf GJ but keep the gauges. OR keep Chun’s two gauges but make them longer.
See? There are a million opinions on these, but I don’t think game design is that easy. What’s to say messing with the top tiers wouldn’t make other characters rise to their place? Maybe then Dudley or Makoto or Urien (no, not really but eh) would be considered “broken”. Then you’d have to change more stuff, then more stuff, then more stuff…And it would end up being a completely different game.
When someone suggests changes like these, they’re only thinking of “smoothing” a couple of key matchups. But don’t forget that changing what are considered top tiers would only affect the top tiers themselves. You could tone down Chun and Yun, but Twelve would keep the same. Sean would keep the same. It’s not that easy, man. Dudley would still easily tag Necro’s limbs with his normals and rush the shit out of him, etc.
^ no
people think that changing up chun and yun would ‘fix’ 3s, but it won’t. It’d help, duh, but it wouldn’t fix it.
well instead of nerfing any characters why dont they just effect how much meter they can build off of whiffs/blocks/hits?
if yun, ken, and chun built meter like ibuki or oro that would be a step in the right direction.
the threats of there supers are still there but it’s slowed down a bit so an excellent yun can still get 2-3 sa3’s in a single round but thats only limited to an excellent yun player. he has to be that good already as a player in order to find ways that are already there to build that bar without relying on whiffing.
basically they can still get u with there good shit but it’ll take more time (and work!) for those 3 to have there full capabilities.
just let them get the normal hit bonus for bar when shit lands and nix bar building from blocks and whiffs to a minimum for them. whiffing for lower tier should be better.
nah that wouldnt do anything
next thing you know, ppl would ask for no more aegis reflector cuz of unblockables, then after that kens SA3 would be too cheap, then next thing Yang stuns ppl to easily, then Denjin is Cheap
you gotta realize ppl wont be satisfied like that
there will ALWAYS be complaints about the game but all it would lead to is more complaining since ppl like breaking things down…its pretty much what would happen if you took away yun and chun…ppl would then complain about ken and other characters…then they want them out…next thing you know ppl would complain about sean
theres no way to make a balanced fighting game…the only way you can achieve that is if you put in the effort to over the unbalance
if ppl cant learn to fight the strongest in the game…how do you expect to become good…that should be the first thing on your mind when it comes to competitive play imo…just get confortable with playing the top tiers then youll start to say “Oh MAN i DARE you to pick yun or chun”
basically theres no way to balance a game, 3s is perfect the way it is…get over yun and chun being the best and start working towards beating them with what you have…it took 10 yrs for us to realize the full truth yet we cant seem to deal with it…i mean for GODS SAKE Kuroda makes it look easy…need i say more?
fix the super arts for the top 3, i.e make them build meter slower, and do less damage total. i think this would bring it pretty close.
I’m starting to think that the people complaining about tiers so much don’t really play 3s.
of course it’s impossible -.-
we’re not looking for teh perfect game, but to balance things out more would be much better…
i mean "low-tier"characters in this game are waaaay underused
and sure, tiers are only W/L ratios of high level play, but it’s painfully obvious with first hand experience that there is such a big disadvantage…
i mean if only a handful high level players can truly “tap” into a low tier’s potential, what chance do people like myself have? (i play Q, and Elena and it is sooo frigging hard - anyone who is remotely good as i am will pretty much own me)
you see people like kuroda beasting with Q, because of skill, and he’s coping against high tiers, but that’s because he’s exceptional. I’m not like that, 99% of people are not like that, not because we don’t try, but because the end reward is quite dismal
it’s not mentality
it’s reality
So you play Q and Elena, and you want Yun and Chun nerfed because players using these on your skill level give you a hard time? If you’re not willing to put effort into making the harder characters work…Maybe you should just pick Yun, Chun or Ken yourself. Nobody is forcing you to pick Q, try to copy Kuroda turtling yet fail to block low, then eat Chun’s cr.mk confirmed into SA2.
i didn’t say nerf O.o
whatever it takes…don’t care about specifics
sure, i’m putting alot of effort in, but it’s not paying that well. I mean, i do play ken occasionally when i get frustrated, but there’s no fun in it…it just makes me more frustrated when i win -.- it’s like, i can’t play who i like with anywhere near the efficiency of ken, and i use ken with like no effort/practise.
and my main point was that there’s not enough players using lower tier characters.
the game is solved and somewhat bland because of that, just the same shite all over again (maybe a FEW deviants, but that’s about it) - i still like the game, but sf2/4 has caught my attention now…
and of course no ones forcing me to pick Q…that’s the thing…if i want to win, i’m forced to a roster of 8 at the most -.-
that’s what gets me…
That’s bullshit. Any character can KO any character. Maybe you need to stick to a small roster of possible picks in order to beat people at your own skill level, but that’s very much just you.
Someone better than you will ruin your shit with Sean. Are you willing to acknowledge that? Can you see what really matters in the end? That’s the player, not which character he’s using.
this is no excuse
if you want to win with Q, you need to put in the effort and time to win against good players…if you cant do that, then maybe you should play sf4 cuz you dont need much effort in that game to win
hell i dont even touch the game and im able to crack top 8 at a local tournament
i play yang and for the most part…most of the yuns, chuns, and kens i play vs i dominate, if not beat them…its hard yea but the end reward is knowing you put in the time to learn that match up and focus on the win
you cant say you wanna play the character you want but you just lose and switch to a character to win…if you wanna win with your character then just learn the match ups…look at Kuroda…dont try to X-copy him like turtling and what not…but look at what he does Match up wise…for example look at what buttons he presses…from there develop your own style…you dont even have to look at Kuroda either just look at other players and learn from there
thats what match vids are there for besides entertainment…you can learn a lot just from one video
Oh yea and to those complaining about yun and chun ill say it again if you take out Yun and Chuns best SA youll still be complaining about other shit in the game…theres no way to make a true balanced fighting game cuz ppl dont like whats givin to them
For me, 3s is balanced