Stiltman pretty much said everything I would have replied with.
You can’t use sj. rh against everyone. You have to guage how well your opponent knows how to get around it, and when you should use sj. fierce (which isn’t always safe, either).
You should only be using sj. jab when Sent is near over-head you (obviously in sj. jab range). I don’t think anything beats sj. jab to my knowledge within sj. jab range. This is one reason why BH is top tier.
standing bh to block assists is a good point to bring up because it’s often overlooked. Imagine if you had Kobun assist and Jugg is there standing to block: kobun won’t get hit. BH protecting Cyc is less exaggerated, of course, but the same principle applies.
We’d prob have to see a match vid to tell you what else you can do, as BH on text honestly sucks. He’s a character you really have to get a feel for when you can/can’t do certain moves… but Stilt is def doing a good job of trying to convey the best he can on text.
it’s hard for a character that has such few moves, but once you get the hang of BH, you just get used to knowing when to air dash and when to do sj. rh.
I don’t know, BH’s got more moves than you’d think.
He’s got j. fierce, with or without airdash backwards afterwards. j. fierce XX airdash back is very, very hard to rush on.
He’s got cr. short and st. short. The former can combo, the latter is more of a pressure move for longer range or a means of comboing people more reliably when they’ve been hit by demons.
He’s got sj. rh. Anything you hit off of this, always air and usually ground, can be either snapped out or hurt bad.
He’s got sj. fierce.
He’s got sj. and j. short to attack with, and sj. jab to defend with.
He’s got inferno in two varieties, one of which seeks the enemy out and the other always hits right in front of you to discourage airdashes. Think of jab inferno as an extra Commando in your pocket that lets people drop right in front of you.
You’ve got launch into inferno if you don’t have a good setup assist to follow up cold tags or sj rh. hits.
You’ve got jab dark thunder to just clear away assists if you want.
You’ve got fierce dark thunder to stop flying Sentinels.
You’ve got three supers (one with air and ground variants), and every one of them has a useful purpose somewhere in the game.
Really… there aren’t that many other characters that have this many useful moves. It’s one reason both BH and Cable are under-utilized in the game… they’ve both got a lot of different moves, and people only know how to use maybe four of them.
Df.FP command launcher to tag tri-jumpers (either trading with them ending up airborne for a trap gambit or connecting clean for an AC/drone OTG).
Standing Fierce for the chest bump knockback as well as momentary pressure with the pigs…best used with drones and the sort…but not at long distances.
Crouching Fierce for the single hit mini-launch into random assist…can also be used for pig okizeme mindgames (just keep in mind that the pigs’ hitboxes vanish after crawling a certain distance away from BH so the range isn’t as far as ppl tend to see.
Standing RK for pressure and keepaway (use with an assist)…use sparingly…Master the sjc ov this if you plan on adding BH’s ground infinite to your arsenal.
Crouching RK (immediately after a horizontal assist when the opponent becomes hesitant to sj) for a small mind game where they either block it or jump into a possible FP DT>>HoD/JDay DHC…the move may be slow but it has it’s uses regardless. Hell throw one out while the op. is confused and sj>ad/f block (hopefully he isn’t dumb enough to try anything besides jumping to your height lest he gets snagged by demons into air JDay…
A couple random BH notes I jotted down during a session:
At certain low heights, a connected nj.FP WILL combo into Inferno>>HoD (very height specific as not only does BH have to close to the ground, but the last pig has to hit them at the apex ov their existence before they disappear).
Dependant on seed factor, you’re able to combo up to 3 Armageddon’s…each linked by a df.FP launcher (like I said…very random seed dependant…the crunchberries MUST not hit them too high nor too low). More possible in the corner than midscreen but it is doable…ppl probably know ov this already but putting it here anyways.
Come on now, how many of these moves do you guys really use in a match besides the moves I list below?
Stilt, i don’t think Ive ever seen you use any version of dark thunder in a match or close-inferno in any of your vids. If you do, it might be like one round out of the dozens out there.
I mean sure, I could argue Captain commando’s baby missle is useful because it let’s capcom attack as soon as it’s blocked, but aside from that, does it really get used in matches?
let’s not kid ourselves. I’d say a solid 90% of BH’s moves are sj./j.fierce, sj. rh, all versions of jab and short, inferno xx hod (inferno xx qcb+pp if they know how to get out), and qcb+pp in the air is decent to protect assist punishment.
some of those other moves you guys list will outright get you killed if you’re wrong, and if you’re right, you might do like a 35 damage air combo lol. I know you guys don’t actually play like that.
something practical like qcb+pp from the air combos into sj. rh, now that’s stuff that people should learn, not d/f+fierce to stop triangle jump. The 3 Armegaddons are cool, tho, props for that.
lmao…I’m not saying that that stuff SHOULD be used in match…it’s just a few quirks that can be used to your advantage when not expected…obviously pulling c.RK demons against Cable WILL get you shot, obviously using FP DT incorrectly will get you rushed down (though the uses for DT from stilt are valid as I use it for the very same reason…to zone out Sent!).
I don’t think that we’re trying to tell ppl to actually USE these obscure moves…just to keep them in mind for SPECIFIC situations in-match…though Stilt may or may not agree with me here, that’s just how I feel about the whole discussion…
Just want to know if I’m the only one taking note ov demon trajectories during combos…the FP demons anyway…I had one instance where BH nj.FP + drones and while I went for full-screen dashback the drones juggled then the FP demons ‘juggled them’ towards BH as he exited his dash, thus allowing me to then pull a mini air dash AC…the physics for the pigs are quite awkward when used in linking combos (non-reset)…I’ll have to look into this more after work.
The only things I put on my list that I haven’t used in tournament are jab dark thunder and jab inferno. If I ran into more Doom assist I might give some thought to jab dark thunder (probably in conjunction with drones to cover BH while doing it), but I’m probably less likely to use this one, yes. Jab inferno is a nice potential ambush for high airdashing Magneto or Storm going over the top of j. fierce/drones, which I could visualize being comboed into launcher/fierce inferno XX whatever, which can be DHC’ed into Sentinel the same way as the Watts DHC. The main thing that stops me from using it is the chess-think-ahead to a day when Magneto might see it coming, manage to somehow stop short, and immediately tempest DHC into “insert super here that hurts BH bad on the ground”. Doing it only at times when the drones are already on the screen anyway might help this, and might not.
Everything else on that list, I’ve used in tournament at some point and would do so again. I’ll even say that fierce dark thunder, done at the right place and time, might well be BH’s most important “am I going to lose to Sentinel or not?” move – if you use it to zap a Sentinel trying to buzz around in the air at the far half of the screen in order to bait you, BH actually becomes a pretty scary fight for him, and if you don’t, a Sentinel that realizes that you can’t otherwise touch him in flight mode outside of half the screen’s distance (and if you don’t have something ghetto like Guile or Cammy AAA, you can’t unless he’s stupid) can toy with you all day.
Yeah, I think I’d rather have this thing stickied back in the BH forums again. All the BH players are just posting to the threads down there and ignoring this one now. We’ve been conditioned too much to just look in those to really go to General Strategy amidst all the other threads and it works for categorizing down the stuff we really want to see. As witness too, the Strider/Sent/Commando thread here in gen-strat got more or less ignored while the one in the Strider forums was rather active there for a while even though it was the same post.
They’re linked up in the tourney BH thread. One reason why I wanted this one moved back here, everybody just went to that one after this got pulled into general strategy
anyway, i want to remind everyone that there is a tournament on saturday 6/7/08in China Town fair in New York. If there is any blackheart player within the tri-state area or near NY please attend this tournament. Cause no offense to anyone in this thread, but a lot of blackheart players out there get away with so much. And the main reason for that is because the level of competition they are facing.
So come to CF in new york, and if you are not going to participate at least watch then you’ll know in what level you guys are at.
On a lighter note Justin Wong was at CF today, he doesn’t play as much as he used to but every now and then he comes by and play MVC2. I got to play him a couple of times, the first time i almost got him but i F**** up and he got me!! The second time he went on the offensive right from the get go and well it was over before i could say F****, but at least i wasn’t perfected on!!!
About the only reason I could even possibly imagine for why BH with dark thunder assist would be worth while for Sentinel and Cable would be if they could both combo supers off of it. I could envision that, sort of, with Cable, I don’t know about Sentinel. Sort of like the ghetto Team Scrub with Commando set on hurricane kick assist – which, shockingly, DOES actually set up both of the other two for supers, as I discovered one day a few years ago when I picked the wrong one by accident at an arcade and played around with it rather than giving up. Still not really worth losing Commando-B though.
I don’t know, are there any assists where you can actually hit halfway decently on reaction with both Sentinel and Cable that have any real priority to them?
EDIT: Other than Psylocke and Tron? Tron, I imagine, could work halfway well with those two… Psylocke, maybe not so much, too easily punished.
Speaking of which, I find it really hard to combo AHVB off BH’s column assist. I’m usually throwing the column during s.FP pressure or j.FP pressure. Are there any traps that let cable hit confirm AHVB with BH’s column assist?
If you drop BH and super jump, and BH hits, you can shoot them 100% of the time on the way up. You cannot shoot them on the way down, BH’s inferno as an assist is weaker than it is as a point character.
Ah, I thought the opponent could not recover on the way down. I have this one trick where if BH AAA hits, I have my Bulleta or Zangief perform their grab supers just before the opponent hits the floor. No one has ever escaped from this; but this may be because no one knows how, or by nature of the HC’s being grabs.
