This thread has been selected for movement to general strategy.
Thread was stickied over in the BH forums… something tells me moving it to general is going to finally end it… 
how much does BH need a proj assist? I’m considering playing BH-AA/Cable-proj/Cyclops-AA over BH-AA/Cable-AA/Cyke-AA. I find without a proj assist my game plan changes entirely.
counter-ahvb is the #1 reason why you should never use Cable-proj.
cAHVB is one of the cheaper aspects in the whole game due to the number of things it counters into a dead character, so don’t give it up for something like cable-proj.
bh doesn’t need a proj assist . Cyc covers the space beneath him and bh covers the space in front and below him.
give it some time. If you want to move it back to a sticky in the bh forums after a few weeks then I will respect your wishes.
I however personally think it’s likely to get more posts in general strat
the thing about not having a proj assist is that I can’t do stupid tricks like short roundhouse+assist xx super/ground dash crossup. And as well as cyke creates blockstun, it’s not the free jump in/high low mixup/cross over high low mixup that doom let’s me get away with.
I also can’t jump back fierce xN and call doom to create space.
In the end though, guess cable-proj isn’t the on the level of storm’s proj, sent’s-drones or doom rocks anyway.
I also find I’m blowing a lot more bar when I see cyke hit. short short cyke inferno xx HOD is a pretty common combo when I play cyke and I hardly ever do that with doom.
Maybe I should play bh/storm/cable.
speaking of which, does anyone have cable/blackheart-AA tricks?
I was trying to work some combos around j.roundhouse dash jab+inferno jab, but I couldn’t work out anything nasty.
okay I know I’m a noob but I really do fail to see why team scrub beats team watts hand down…
I don’t see sentinel with two anti airs being that big an issue against bh with ground control (sent) and an anti air (capcom). BH should be able to outplay sent IMHO if they start him.
Also, why is cable such a problem for BH if he doesn’t have an assist the stops BH from ground dashing under all the crap he throws why jumping? J.FP demons stop capcom assist and BH’s jab anti air + JD/HOD stops everything once you get them into the corner.
cause sent’s air normals destroy blackheart? blackheart can’t compete air to air, so a good sent is going to run around your shit all day. rushing sent is also hard cause his super armor prevents him from taking hit stun on all your good tools. BH can’t jump FP>RH like storm or mags and force him to block or die. Sent can eat hits like crazy and just do whatever he wants through your shit. Also, BH does no damage whatsoever vs. sent short short capcom inferno HOD is like 20% against sent
and the fact of the matter is that AHVB >>>>>>>>>>>> bh ground dash. secondly if you try and sjFP or sjRH or j.FP you get shot. those moves have lag and his air dash can also get shot.
The game plan vs. cable is keep him grounded. you can’t sj and doing anything but block without getting shot. Either your baiting a whiff AHVB so you can air JD it or baiting a super jump so you can ground dash safely. Ultimately you have to play the rush game vs. cable cause all your zoning tools get shot. And j.FP doesn’t beat capcom. if you try and land on top of him from a sj you HAVE to block capcom. from further out sure, corridor gets nullified from j.demons, but that’s not gonna by you anything cause you have to cancel his recovery to air dash then spend an hour landing. My gameplan vs. cable is actually to DHC into cable so that I can play cable/BH-AA vs. cable/capcom.
lastly, I like how you say once you have sent cornered. Easier said than done, cause he flies around your AAA and your infernos. A smart sent can just fly around in the top corners of the screen and evade everything you have while countering everything you do with frying pan.
In other news, inferno eats up all of dooms rocks. fucking amazing.
If you’re going to win against good competition, you won’t play games like ground dash crossups and odd assist into super setups. c. short+cyc, c. forward, inferno xx hod is more than enough and easily wipes out 1/2 of mag/storm’s life bar. I’d worry more about doing that type of combo than anything else.
cable/bh combos aren’t really worth the risk, either. Focus on good trapping with those 2, because if your cable/bh is really on par, you have a REALLY annoying set of traps that far exceed the trapping nature of cable/storm-g, or any other trapping team for Cable for that matter.
practice:
call bh , tiger knee grenade
c. fierce + bh, grenade
j. fierce + bh xx grenade
c. bh, tiger knee jab viper
s. fierce x4+bh, grenade
call bh, sj. fierce, fierce viper beam, jab viper beam
dash , s. rh+ bh, ahvb (if it connects)
s. fierce x2 +bh, jab pscimitar
j. fierce + bh, fierce viper beam
If you can mix those options up very well based on where your opponent is and their past patterns, and you do the occasional AHVB to keep them honest, they will be forced to do a risky move to get in at you. That’s where cyc/cc comes in and they eat AHVB.
just keep it simple until you’re winning consistently.
wait what? sent without a proper ground assist should not be controlling the air. sj.FPs should be controlling all of the air so that sent can’t get to him. In the air, super armor doesn’t mean jack so call drones, sj. fp xx dash back is safe. (this doesn’t mean you just spam it. You get proper spacing first and add the appropriate attack after the dash to fill in the blanks). You should also be able to get enough space to throw out anti airs to jd when sents flying w/o unfly and/or chip him with judgement day(if they’re hardcore turtling). I’ve found this match up to be a competition on calling assist. as long as you’re smart, sent doesn’t really have any big edge. If you play this strategy like I’m saying, you should be building more bar than sentinel. More bar equals more supers. More supers equals more chip. More chip usually (I should say almost always) results in the sent user getting impatient which should equal big damage.
as for cable… keeping him grounded has yet to be my focus until they’re in the corner. I just pace myself to see how the cable user is going to cover himself. Most cables just shoot their gun while calling drones or sj.fp/j.fp while calling drones, so I play off of them.
If they’re dumb enough to stay on the ground with FPs I go high with RH, dash and come down with the demons (blocking) ready to counter what they do next. (regardless of the response the end result is them being pushed closer to the corner).
If they spam their drones while jumping I have options. I can either go under all that stuff if they rely too much on sj.fp, which should put me right under cable b4 he can come down with their assist out and waiting to be punished by my commando and more.
If they j.fp with assist I can choose between SJing over everything they send at me while dropping RH into a dash to follow them into the overhead strategy I put above or the stated dash option (b/c ahvb does not hit BH when cable is at the peak of his regular jump and 90% of cables NEVER expect BH to take the low road). Of course this stuff is easier said then done (unless you have a true understanding BH’s mechanics) you don’t just dash dash dash, you mix it up to and read their movements.
All that’s stated above against cable is in no way a take him out easily strategy. It is just strategy to get him to hesitate by getting around all he can throw at you (and punishing his assist SAFELY) and forcing him back to the corner. Once he’s there it should be a much fairer match if not in BH’s favor. I believe I stated b4 that the jab version anti air to hod stops commando when used right in the corner. It will also stop sent drones. I use this in conjunction with j.FPs after placing them in block stun to j.lks and cr.lk and s.jp to damage cable and the assist he will surely be trying to call to get space (assuming you haven’t already landed a clean hit that would result in death against team watts).
i think you need to play better sentinels, you’re not gonna win a match on sj.FP xx adb alone. A good sent is going to fly around that shit, force you to dash and then CREAM you. even if you block on teh way down, you can’t call your assist and he’s going to fly right on top of you and call commando then fly short xx unfly into stomp tactics or spit (depending on whether he has unfly or not).
BH get’s murdered by stomp. you can’t sj through it. a good sent is not going to be in a position where your AAA is remotely effective (be it capcom, cable or cyke or whatever) all you can do is block and pushblock and hope to god you can buy some space. Next thing you know is that you’re in the corner blocking really gay stomp traps. And even if you buy space enough to super jump, sent can just sj.FP xx fly/unfly and repeatedly beat you anyway. Additionally sent can call his assist whenever he wants, if you’re trying to play air to air game with sent he has the complete advantage since he knows when you can and can’t call your assist, while sent can call his basically whenever he wants.
also, sent does 10x more chip than blackheart. blocked normals, capcom, HSF is gonna kill you so much faster than you turtling for bar, hoping to get lucky so you can inferno xx HOD in the corner (the only time BH actually does any chipping damage).
I don’t see BH ever beating sent on chipping strategy.
I humbly believe that sent is BH’s worst matchup and is borderline unwinnable
naw I don’t find the stomp/commando strategy that much of a problem if you use the push block properly and I’ve played against sentinels like Finese’s. when sent is coming down on top and calling capcom one of two things should happen.
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they’re calling capcom b4 the stomping in order to keep you pinned down, in which case you counter call capcom (since you’re not in block stun yet) so that yours lands on the screen right after theirs is blasting the ground. this interrupts anything they’re planning/punishes their assist/creates space.
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they start there stomp string first with commando called inbetween stomps, in which case you should be pushblocking the first hit that connects. this pushes sent back and assuming they called capcom leaves him right next to you to get punished as you come out of block stun. (done right, sent might 1for1 at best with your assist.
if you’re push blocking, there most definitely will be gaps where either they or their assist is not safe. I find that the hard part for most BH is not creating opening but being patient enough to not get picked off by a kick into a ff combo. Also note I never said you’d be doing more chip than sent. 10x more chip than bh is just a crazy exaggeration. you should be on par with him by using a super her and there at worst case scenario. to be honest though, I don’t focus on chipping sent, I focus on there assist so that when they see how damaged it’s getting, they call it less and create even more gaps. Mind you, when I speak of bh fairing well on this team, I don’t mean that he runs through sent. I mean that he breaks even or comes out on top by a little bit.
on another note, I too consider sent bh’s worst matchup but not when sent only has anit airs. IMHO sent is hell when he has an assist to cover the ground like storm or doom X_X
you’re in blockstun as you touch the ground before you ever get the chance to call your assist…
no, that’s only if you’re in the corner. I thought I mention how to avoid being cornered but I guess not. I use the pushblock method cancelled to the ground dash on recover when put in the corner or the jump cancelled in the ground dash when getting close to the corner. you’d be amazed how well this works since the screen doesn’t always return to the very bottom so that bh isn’t even seen doing the dash.
Okay, after the tourney today in Fairfield, I’m prepared to declare that I’m re-sold on Sentinel/Cable/Blackheart as a tournament team again. I went with Sent-Y instead of Sent-A like I used to use in the old days, and the only person I wasn’t able to beat with that team was my opponent in the grand finals, who was a good Santhrax player. Was up against some MSP and MSS and Scrub played by non-sucky opposition other than that and beat all those (one of whom was an Evo West final 8).
k so how does BH+cyke beat Sent+doom/storm
like wow. I fucking get raped.
bh/cyc should kill that team relatively easily.
stay on Sent since he has no AAA. And once you get him in the corner, you have cyc assist, inferno xx hod at your disposal to use repeatedly.
sj. rh, air dash, fall with sj. short, sj. forward, land, c. short, c. forward + cyc, sj. rh to cover cyc, repeat.
It really depends on how well your opponent knows BH, too, and how they move around on the screen, because the above cycle won’t work as well (you just have to be more careful) if they know when to hit BH out of sj. rh.
And don’t be afraid to stall with bs like sj. fierce and sj. jab when they get close. You may think it’s cheap, but what do you think Sent is doing when he is flying at jump height on the far end of the screen, cancelling with c. fierce, cancel back into flight all day? It’s a stall tactic which is gay as hell, but hey, you have BH, one of the best stallers in the game.
BH storm cyke is my new blackheart team, officially.
frying pan beats all those tactics.
everytime i sj.rh he’ll sj.FP it. and frying pan > sj. jab
If I try and stall, all i get is a sent flying/dashing in and calling doom underneath me. which I eventually haev to block before getting stomped.
once he starts stomping me I’m fucked. stomp + doom = 20% chip/cycle and there’s nothing you can press to stop it. this sent is really good i’m blocking legs when he calls doom which means i can’t call cyke when i see doom come out. And if I call a bad cyke, he dies to beam rocket punch HSF resets.
Also he usually has an AA assist be it capcom/cable. It’s just that the shit I can’t beat is sent stomps with proj assist covering the ground.
I was trying to implement dark thunder xx HoD but that shit is slow. Either I’m getting hit by doom or getting hit by legs.
The only way I’ve been able to beat sent is with cable/BH traps but even then it’s hard. I can’t figure out how to beat sent with BH. Seriously, even when i see mistakes like HSF/beams/rocket punch while I’m in SJ the best I can do is air JD which even when it hits does shit damage.
If I ever SJ he’ll just close in and call doom. I’m at a disadvantage ground to ground since beam + proj assit + RP/drones/HSF murders me. I can’t fight air to air.
Basically what you’re telling me is that I have to get him on the ground while I’m in the air. So even if I get a random infernoxxHOD/knockdown hod leaves me at disadvantage and I have to block beams/assists as i get up and knockdowns (say air to air jab strong roundhouse) only sets him up mid screen. Whereas every time I fuck up I lose 40-100% of my health.
Okay… where to begin…
You can either normal jump forward in order to try to gain ground or you can super jump more judiciously and not do sj. rh unless you know your opponent has a reason to stay on the ground. You’re apparently not giving them one, and don’t sj. rh unless it’s from an angle where they can’t get around. Sentinel (as well as Cable) is Exhibit A for why random sj. rh is not a good idea. If you don’t have a reason to throw it, don’t.
If he’s flying under you, that is a reason to throw it.
This one probably should’ve gone in my initial article in this thread…
Stand BH himself up while HSF is hitting your assist. Watch what happens.
If he’s close enough to stomp you, he’s close enough for Cyclops to hit him…
…which means this isn’t the right move at this point. Use dark thunder when Sentinel is trying to fly out of Cyclops/sj rh range in hopes of baiting things on you.
If you’ve got either Sentinel or Cable behind BH, either drones assist or counter-AHVB should be discouraging him from using the laser beam too much. If he doesn’t learn that one, then you’ll just have to teach it to him. 
In general, what you need to do is to take away the things he wants to do and make him want to do the things you want him to do. What it’s sounding like here is, you’re just flat out not controlling the fight and playing in a desperately-reacting panic because you’re getting controlled instead, which is going to generally lose games no matter how much you read here. Deal with the obvious cases of being more patient and more careful (and not letting him kill your assists, which he basically never should be doing in one blast), and go from there.