I lol and respect what you’re saying here…thanx for the insight…
Yeah, well… I probably shouldn’t have been quite that wordy about it. The simpler way of putting it is this:
An argument can be made that Row belongs on the list of the best five MvC2 players of all time. The only other guys whose original influence on the game arguably outstretch his are Justin Wong and Duc. The guy defines modern anti-rush Cable long after everybody elsewhere in the country (including in Cableguy’s territory) has believed Cable gets rushed down for free, he flat out invented Mag/Sent-A, and he was in on the crew that invented fast fly combos with Sentinel, discovered the first attack glitch, and was one of the first to perfect unblockables. If he isn’t on your list of the top five to ten players of all time in the game, then either you’re on drugs or you haven’t been paying attention.
Cableguy is absolutely not even one of the five best MvC2 players of all time just in the bay area.
So… yeah. That last post was basically a mini-rant, but telling me that Cableguy is better than Row is just… staggeringly wrong. :wtf:
one very good Cable is that Carlos’. He did pretty well against JWong.
Wow. I wrote all that… twice… when all I had to do was point out that one of the matches RowJoe posted was… wait for it…
Row vs. Cableguy.
Watch that one, Deth-Scyanyde. That pretty much makes my case for me. That match was an absolute laugher from start to finish, and Row was completely fucking around for the entire match, too.
QED.
So how about that blackheart? Lol anyway i’m confused i skimmed this thread and read dasriks guide and they say i should airdash sj and throw mostly hp demons sparingly. Then i watched a couple of watson and valle matches and they flew around and threw mostly hk demons?
those are old videos.
basically, it goes like this:
if your opponent doesn’t know jack about BH, use sj. rh. These are the same people that if you hit their assist with inferno xx hod (meaning their assist is in the same spot as their point, but their point is blocking), you can keep doing inferno xx hod and kill their assist (lol) because they are clueless on how to get out.
if your opponent knows something about fighting BH, you can still probably use sj. rh, but i’d use a lot more sj. fierce because they may know how to maneuver around his rh demons. On these players, sj. rh may pin them down and they don’t know that they can shake out. In that case, wait to land, uncombo with c. short + assist, c. forward xx inferno xx hod. Presto, 75%+ life lol.
For those same people, in the corner, if you tag them with inferno xx hod, hit them with s. rh on the way down from HOD. They won’t know to shake out, and you get an uncombo’d j. short, j. forward, c. short, c. forward.
If your opponent knows what they’re doing (i.e., if you try sj. rh, they know to sj with you and hit you while your sj. rh demons are ‘forming’… and they know how to dash under your demons, making them useless), then stick to sj. fierce from time to time along with sj air dash cancels to block after sj. fierce. Don’t do sj. fierce xx airdash xx sj. fierce or you’ll most likely pay for it on the way down(sentinel s. fierce, cable ahvb, storm wind xx hailstorm). And use plenty of sj. jab and sj. short and j. jab and c. short. They stop almost everything. Don’t do inferno xx hod if they know how to jump out, use inferno xx qcb+pp.
That’s about it. BH is pretty easy, but just very different to use from anybody else, so you just have to get used to him. And yes, he is primarily a stall/meter building character. If your opponent really knows how to block and decides to run away instead of run into your stuff, you can be in trouble if you have no meter burning character left on your team. But you don’t run into that too much because it makes for a boring match (not that BH is exciting).
if you’re around NYC area, I can show you bh directly at CF.
I stand corrected…lol…
I actually saw those match links that same day, just didn’t say anything…see above, I stand corrected…
there are(only) a couple cables on rows level. carlos is way too consistent and he is actually playing to win the whole fight.
mex powa
Well, we’re ultimately talking about a situation where there’s different degrees of being good with a character. I’ll just sort of throw out three dividing lines, they’re all pretty broad but the basic breakdown is pretty fundamental here here. (And I’ll attempt to bring this back to BH here…)
Level 1: You can know a character well enough to just know the moves. You know easy set-ups for most of the characters moves, and you might well know a basic set of what you can punish with a character’s moves and what you can’t. However, you’re still probably going to lose for free to a truly good player with that character.
Level 2: You can know a character well enough that you don’t lose for free to anybody who knows the game, and you’ll beat a lot of people because the character is odd to them and they don’t know what to do against them.
Level 3: You can know a character well enough that you know how to fight both with them and against them, and even if your opponent knows what to do, you still have a good shot at winning and you might well just beat them anyway.
It can be very difficult, if you don’t understand a character yourself, to watch a video and tell a Level 2 player apart from a Level 3 player in this nomenclature. Cableguy is a mid-range Level 2 Cable player by this definition. Row is a high end Level 3 Cable player. Thus, it’s no great shock that when Row played Cableguy in that video, the gap between their two understandings of Cable play was immediately evident.
This is why I started this thread, at some point. I took a look around and observed that most people who play BH are, at best, Level 1. There are a few Level 2s, and very, very few Level 3s. Characters that lend themselves well to “easy mode” tend to suffer the most from this, and BH, let’s be real, is a very, very easy character to play, and it’s very easy to get into very bad habits. So I went and compiled together a simple list of what tends to break down the bad BHs who are just playing “easy mode” apart from the ones who really understanding him.
For instance, sj. rh is still a good move, and it’s got its uses, but when I throw it, it’s usually going to be because I think you’ve got a pretty low chance of getting over it or under it, and it’s usually going to be aimed directly at you. I’m also going to be in position that if I hear it hit, I can air dash over and land next to you, and from there I can do st. short/fwd/Commando into the combo of my choice. If you’re used to a BH that hasn’t graduated from “spray and pray”, mine is probably going to kill you in a big hurry just with that alone. However, even if you do know how to avoid that much, I tend to know most of the angles for how to fight against different characters pretty well, so even if you know what you’re doing I’m not an easy out.
Ultimately, I play BH mostly these days because, yes, he’s easy to play, and I don’t get nearly as much time to practice as I used to, so that’s a big deal to me. When I was up in the northwest and had enough spare time to play the game three times a week, people considered my Cable to be by far my best character, and I rotated freely between Cable teams and BH teams with the latter being more of an anti-rushdown specialist against Magneto while Sent/Cable/AAA teams generally got the anti-Storm duties. Nowadays, I’m lucky if I can get to an arcade more than once a week, so when I do get a chance to play I tend to gravitate to stuff that I can pick back up quickly without a lot of practice… which means BH/Sent/Commando. However, the fact that I understand Cable as well as I do – and better than pretty much everybody around me – lets me get away with that, because I know Cable better than the people playing me do, even though my own is a shell of its former self.
Let’s be real… Watts should not beat Scrub head on, and it’s probably no better than okay against Team Row and it can get bad very fast if BH doesn’t roll over Magneto and you have to fight Cable head on. That’s the way it happens on paper, and if both players know how to fight that fight, then that’s how it happens in reality, too… but a lot of California players who expect a free win get rudely surprised. I can usually beat a California Team Scrub if I’m playing well, although it’s not easy even at that, but I’ll still usually win, and they’ll wonder where their free win went. Against Team Row, I’ll usually dominate them so badly that many of them will walk away thinking that Watts is a hopeless fight for the team. It’s not the case either way… I’m beating them because I understand Cable a lot better than they do. One guy recently beat me with Row in a tournament down here by swapping the order to Mag/Sent-A/Cable, which is arguably better for rush fights and to give yourself a DHC to get Magneto out, which is theoretically a good idea, but it’s probably not a good idea in the long run because it forces you to be more conservative using Sent-A as an assist. (Which, frankly, I should’ve thought of at the time and hammered on Sentinel harder to cripple that plan… ah well. I wasn’t very awake that day…) But you get the general idea… I’ve been able to “cheat” on having to go to a backup team against Cable because I know him well enough that I can get away with it. If the Cable players around me were better, I wouldn’t be able to do that.
Anyway, it all goes back to the reason I created the thread. When everyone is a Level 3 player, it ultimately will often come down to who gets the best of who in a given game, and how good their characters are, and this is partly why Magneto, Storm, Sentinel, and Cable are universally considered the best four characters in the game. BH is sort of all right, but even I’m not prepared to say that he should expand that list to five, but he works well enough against Magneto and his assist is good enough behind Sentinel that I think he’s still got a place in tournament play. However, at the top level you’ll probably need to have a backup plan against a truly good player who understands how to play Cable… and I get away with it because about the only guy around here who does is me.
In that respect, discussing Cable does have some relevance to a BH thread, because it might be the most important matchup to know how to fight – if you know how to fight Cable better than your opponents know how to play him, that’s a very winnable fight. However, it’s still true that if the Cable player really knows his stuff, it’s pretty bad for BH, and the only reason that’s not a worse matchup than Storm is because a lot more people know how to play Storm than Cable.
So when I started playing marvel I started with BH (like a month ago) I was playing BH/Cable (AA)/cyke doing a lot of jump back, a lot of call cyke sj demons to cover him, a lot of short short cyke inferno xx HOD. A bit of sj. Demons xx air dash fierce as I fall so that the demons cover all of blackheart.
Moving on, someone recommended I play bh/cable/doom. Now this is a fantastic team (especially out our weaker scene of competition. I’ve been doing stuff like short short doom ground dash/air dash crossup. Short short doom midscreen and jump short them. A lot of call doom and wait, using sj demons, sj.jab, inferno xx hod as cover if I see my opponent press buttons.
However I don?t know how to combo off short +doom short. Like I have a habit and would do short +doom short inferno hod but it doesn’t combo; whiffs mid screen (and can get you killed). What am I supposed to do? Corner doom + hod does like 20% chip and that’s like a combo on block. But what do I do if I see something hits? The worst is I land a sj. demons on someone who’s jumping and they get the bounce. My default combo (short+doom,short inferno xx hod) doesn’t work. Sometimes I’m lucky and I can get df+FP (the launcher into jab strong roundhouse) go for a reset or a straight inferno xx hod. But I’d like to know my options.
I like this team; I’m gonna run with it.
Speaking of which, there’s 2 ways I fight cable. One is super jumping his s.FP/j.FP traps and airdashing then blocking on the way down. If I see cable committing to something stupid like fpx4 while I’m sjing I’ll throw demons before I air dash. If I see cable starting to sj chase me, I’ll try my best to bait one then groundash most his shit and rush him down. By calling doom in his face then jump jab/jump short if he tries to jump. Really hard fight if he has cyclops.
Good post Stilt.
do the dumb bh/doom trap with that team. call doom, inferno, then inferno xx hod. If they get hit by the first inferno, it all combos. if they try to move, they’ll usually get hit by doom’s rocks, too. so stupid that it’s genius.
of course it has tons of holes, but if the opponent doesn’t know how to get out or has the wrong character, they’ll get mad.
btw, bh/doom and doom/bh are not as solid as they used to be. I’d recommend bh/cable_sent/cyc_cc if you want a serious BH team.
Those are the only 4 serious BH teams I can think of in this game that you might want to take to a tourney.
Just in case anyone wants a list of combos for Blackheart [practical and non-practical], I’m giving you a list of old combos that we [the SRK community]made awhile back…
WARNING: MASSIVE POST ALERT:CONDENSED BH COMBO THREAD [<–Click it to see the original…]
This is their [and my] combos in our own words. This is possibly my biggest post ever. There will be my combos in here too I’m sure since I put some in there.
Table of contents [in order?]:
==CoosCoos== [Some Solo Combos]
==Deathfist== [Majority of the combos]
==BlackHeartKing== [Good quantity of the combos]
==Stiltman== [Explains his DHC]
==CoosCoos==
Solo Combos
Well there’s some stuff BH can do. There’s:
Launch, sj. lp, sj. lk, sj. lp xx ad. f xx ad. lp, (ad. lk, ad. lk or ad. lk, throw).
That will cause fly screen and such, or you can throw.
(Launch or on a dummy doing something in the air), sj. lp xx ad. f, hp throw.
If you’re interested in playing BH, then you NEED to learn how to do this.
cr. lp, cr. lp xx sj. lp xx ad. f, ad. lp, ad. lk, ad. lp, ad. lk.
The “wooo hooo I’m a pixie character that can super jump cancel” thing. Remember after the second cr. lp to put the stick into neutral right away, and then super jump.
cr. lk, st. hk xx HOD/Judgement Day.
Easy link to HOD or Judgement Day. By all means with JD, DHC and wreck something.
==Deathfist==
Many of these have been posted elsewhere
Note:/= or
=BH-Sent-a=
This design isn’t necessarily optimal for BH. It does give BH some interesting basic combos however.
=Call+dlk,dmk, Inferno/JD/SJ ad-hk[Mid-screen only], follow up with anything except the infinite [too close, barely not enough time…,]
=J[in any direction]Sent-a+lp, micropause, mk, airdash forward, JD, DHC HSF [ouch!!]
-This is for if your opponent is in the air. Kinda like the Jump lp, Call Capcom,mp, inferno vs a jumper.
-so much for that triangle jump you guessed on, and you could airdash out of range if your first attack is blocked or misses [only Sent is vulnerable for the most part]
Opponent superjumps and air-dashes towards you, and you do this…
1]Wait till you no longer have drones on screen
2]Call Sentinel-y when the sj icon disappears [or is about to disappear] and immediately sj lp,lk, micropause, airdash, lk, mp, mk, hk.
-The chain knocks them down into the drones
-The hk hits them off the drones
-They’re bouncing meaning that they are at risk big time.
3]Continuations:
a-Jumping hk again, tag out to Cable/Ironman/Storm
b-Judgment day, DHC HSF [much better and more stable in this situation than one might think. DHC in Sentinel between the 29th and 35th hit.]. You have the option to launch [you MIGHT have to do a short dash; not likely though].
c-Launch, AC
d-Standing Hk, tag out to Cable/Ironman/Storm
e-HOD or InfernoXXHOD
The concept for this combo was born from the following combo. I’m sure someone thought of it first, but I had nobody to ask about this one, so I invented it myself [by taking the classic sj cancel combo and inserting drones into it to enhance it’s power…].
Dlk, [optional call of Sent-y], dmp [+optional call of Sent-y], [optional call of Sent-y], sj cancel lp, pause, airdash, lk, mp, mk, hk, land, and do whatever you want [they’re bouncing from the hk]
-Basically, you select the best optional call point of Sentinel drones among the ones I mentioned earlier, and do your worst.
This can get brutal really fast. You’ve done 35-40% damage before you’ve even got the chance to super their ass. The potential after the initial combo for extra damage is almost unlimited.
=BH-Mags-a=
Magneto’s projectile assist isn’t that great for BH in terms of combos. It’s more of a don’t advance along the ground while I superjump or normal jump type of thing. You’ll probably want to be using Cyc with these 2. Not a good idea unless your name is Samnang and your Mags is insaine.
=Call Mags+dlk, dmk, inferno, HOD and if you have good timing it’ll combo.
-Sometimes you can do a Judgement day instead of an inferno, but that’s really tough.
=Side Combos=
=Mags-BH-b Unmashable [Samnang]: Call BH-b+launch, hp, Tempest, lp,lk,mp,mk, Airdash UF, lp,lk,mp,mk, Tempest, fast DHC to Armageddon. This should kill an average stamina character instantly. If not, InfernoXXHOD for final chip or sj and airthrow them.
New Combo
I developed a way to pull a Yipes combo with Magneto-BH.
1]Dhp. If it hits, call BH, sj hp, ad df hp, hk, dhk.
-If you did it right, the person is otg’d by the inferno, and hit by the dhk before they are sent into the forced roll.
2]Continue the combo with one of the following…
-Hypergrav into whatever you want
-Sj cancel into the Rom infinite
-Shockwave super
NOTE: These are just what I was able to pull of since my Magneto sucks. There’s nothing to stop you from doing the slide infinite out of this.
Imagine landing a ground combo without an assist that ends in the opponent eating a proton cannon, a hailstorm, or a HSF? I have some. The problems are that I’ve only tested them on a Dreamcast, and they’re fucking hard. I’m highly tempted to keep this quiet, but I decided not to.
=Armageddon fast cancells=
The Armageddon starts much faster than you think. If you can figure out the fastest DHC out timing, you can stun the person with one of BH’s attacks [only a few of which will work…,], whiff an armageddon, and then BANG, they eat a hailstorm, a proton cannon, a HSF, or some other madness. All of these fast cancels are trickshots.
=Standing hk [first hit] will combo with a Hailstorm using the above trick [tested], and using the same logic, a proton cannon will as well. Don’t bother with HSF in this situation. You’ll be lucky for it to hit properly, and if that happens, the person will not be jugglable for linkage. Sometimes the person may be able to roll out of it.
=Dlk, DmP [yes this is a mp] will combo with a hailstorm, a proton cannon, or a HSF using the Armageddon Fast cancel trick.
-Mid-screen only for the HSF. Knocking someone into the corner with this reduces it’s hit-stun, and makes it more likely for an asteroid to hit the wrong way ruining your combo. Hail works fine, Proton cannon should work too vs cornered foes [forgotten].
=Jump back hp vs a ground dashing or standing foe, Armageddon [whiffed] will combo into all 3. This means mid-screen or with your back to the wall, a VERY careless opponent can eat a HSF, a hailstorm, or a proton cannon.
Practical combos again?.
=Magneto on Point: Launch+Call BH, sj UF, hp, wait+UF, Tempest, lp,lk,mp,mk, airdash, lp,lk,mp,mk, Tempest, DHC Armageddon.
For Sentinel when trying to combo infernoXXHOD, you can use an artificial corner trick. By delaying your assist call by just a nanosecond or 2, you can do something like this on him. Even at mid-screen where the problem is…
=Dlk, call Capcom, dmk, Inferno, HOD. Blackheart begins throwing the inferno a little before the Capcom hit lands, so the person is lifted up into the inferno [which grazes them] by Capcom. You can even double-bounce some characters with it.
Airthrow to Drones Section
=*normal jump, airdash forwards [optional but recommended…], call Sentinel, B+Hp/k to score the air throw.
Follow-ups…
1] Stuff before you land…
1a Judgment day [air] and DHC out killing the character
1b slide airdash hk followed by one of the following…
-normal jump [or sj], airdash, lk,mk [if the combo meter restarts and this hits, call Capcom, dlk,dmk, and kill the character via DHC]. If this hits and it doesn’t restart the counter, launch the person or standing hk them [if you think it will hit]. If blocked, sj, and airdash back under the cover of drones, or whatever.
-ground Judgment day and DHC out to Sentinel killing the character
2]Stuff after you land…
2a Judgment Day
2b Launch the character [lp,mp, or DF hp will work vs airborne opponents] followed by one of the following…
-Inferno XX HOD whiffed, HSF,
-Air Combo to reset or airthrow.
When used defensively, this doesn’t have nearly the effect as when used offensively. If your back’s to the wall and you call Sent then back throw them into the drones, the best you can usually accomplish is this combo…
1]jump back into the corner with BH, call sent and airthrow them into the corner to trade places. On the way down late in the descent, lp.
2]Immediately upon landing sj with lp [very tricky], airdash forwards, lp, lk, mp, airthrow/mk.
Further experimentation needed on the defensive end.
As a side note, you can do the BH lightning ground throw into Sentinel Drones, and it will combo. Your recovery is so bad that it’s useless however.
You can also airthrow someone into Capcom. Call capcom, jump, airthrow. Good for a quick 40 points of damage, useless otherwise [no combo potential].
==BlackHeartKing==
It actually works best if you do cr.lp + doom, cr.lp xx sj.jp xx (ad.lk, ad.lp, ad.lk)
The part in the parentheses should be done fairly fast so that the fly screen places the enemy on the ground right as the rock hit them. From there you just sj (this causes them to fly hit from the rocks) with the RH and the enemy will be bouncing.
also with this team using the BH self gb that I mention early in the corner, you can do the 2nd lp + doom xx sj.lk, sj.lk, rh as you start to fall and the opponent will be bouncing in the infinite set up.
if ever you hit the opponent with a rh when they’re in the air and they’re bouncing and you don’t have meter to punish them, you can launch + doom xx delayed sj.jp ad slight delay, air throw. The throw will throw them into the doom rock and if you rh as you’re on you way down, the rh should hit the putting them into the infinite set up. This will put them right back where you hard them, but you should have half a bar more now to work with.
bh & sent-a
cr.lk+assist, cr.lk canceled into sj canceled into airdash immediately canceled into RH
(this will all connect and if you jump right as your opponent is touching the ground from being hit by the RH they’ll bounce really high into the air allowing you to do whatever you want to them)
sent & bh-b
in corner with unflight…launch, sj.jp, sj.jp, ff.lk + assist, ff.fp, uf.lk, uf.fp, upward rp
(delayed hit from the inferno should connect after the ff.fp so that the upward rp connects)
bh & cyclops (aa)
cr.lk + assist, cr. lk, pause til second hit from connects, fp inferno
(I usually mash the fp b/c it seems to makes the delayed juggle hit from the inferno connect more often)
after they bounce on second hit…
- timed inferno for a second hit
- jp. rh cancelled to dash (infinite set-up)
- launch to air combo
- switch in another character like cable to follow up with jp.jp, jp.fp, ahvb
==Stiltman==
[media=youtube]zOwTqLovHo8"[/media] <–Click Yellow. DHC in round 2
Originally Posted by Deathfist
I agree that it can be consistently done, it’s just so wierd that I haven’t been able to do it consistently. Actually, I did do this to someone in a tournament that I knew sucked [so there was no pressure], but I need video of it working to get it to work with any remote degree of consistency. I’m not saying that it’s impossible to get down consistently [far from it actually…,] I’m just saying it’s not something that can easily be put into words.
Yeah… well, I can understand that. Let’s see if I can manage to put it into words any better.
Basically, you know the first few phases. Poke into Commando on the ground or, if you want, if you manage to hit someone with sj. rh air-to-air and then land and standing short/fwd/Commando. Hit the inferno at the usual timing, HOD. That part’s easy.
What will happen at this point is that the inferno will bounce them up into the air for a short straight-up arc before they begin to fall back down. They can roll on the ground but they can do nothing until they touch the ground. Basically what you’re really doing here is comboing into Commando/inferno/HSF right out, and the HOD is just a whiff startup to get the drones to hit. The critical point that I always watch is where the bottom of their body falling down in the inferno column is. On the screen, the inferno after the Commando hit will bounce them up into the scoreboard on the way up, and then they’ll drop back down. Cable and Magneto are my most typical measuring sticks, partly because they’re also the main characters that I usually hit with it. Cable needs to drop far enough down that his feet spinning in the air upside down have just barely passed below the scoreboard. Start with that and memorize where Cable’s head at the bottom of his fall is, and print it onto your brain where that horizontal level is for everyone else you do it on.
There is both good news and bad news for ease of execution of this as compared to Storm/Sentinel. The bad news has two parts. The first part is, that unlike Storm/Sentinel where you only have to momentarily watch a slight drop after a lightning storm, BH/Sentinel/Commando requires you to watch them first get carried up by the inferno and THEN drop, which is a slightly more complex sequence of physics that is further obscured by the inferno column. The other part is, the HOD rising up slightly cuts down on your margin of error for getting it right. If any of the demons of HOD hit, the DHC won’t work and the HSF drones will unfailingly whiff. However, Storm/Sentinel’s margin of error isn’t THAT much either, so it’s not just drastically harder to do, the short bounce up is ultimately trickier to account for than the HOD. The good news is, you only really have to work out the timing for one range, because Commando/inferno will always put them at full screen distance regardless ofwhere you start, so you don’t have to vary anything once you’ve got the base distance down.
Another piece of good news is, if you do happen to get this in a corner, you can dash up and launch with Sentinel at full screen for an air combo and save yourself a third meter. You don’t have to wave dash or juggle or OTG to do this. This is a function of the fact that the timing for the DHC will always drop them into the top row of drones, unlike the normally more forgiving Storm/Sentinel DHC where you might lose the launcher if you drop them into HSF too low and a lot of damage potential gets wasted. HSF/launch/short/strong/RP/fierce/rh will do roughly the same damage as HSF/fierce/RP/HSF/fierce/RP for one fewer meter. Either one of them does in the low 120s to Cable off of a straight poke… not 100% but enough damage that in most real match situations it will probably kill someone. If you’re getting it off of a sj. rh it might do a little more, I haven’t measured that in training mode.
Originally Posted by Deathfist
That’s kinda what I was thinking. I’m dreaming of a BH-Storm-Sent-a. Part of the reason I figured out that this is possible is from watching and eventualy extending Samnang Koy’s Magneto combo…
=Launch+Call BH, sj, hp, wait, Tempest, lp,lk,mp,mk, airdash, lp,lk,mp,mk, Tempest, DHC Armageddon. After figuring out you can go tempest Armageddon in the high air, I was curious to see if there were other methods to use it in combos.
Yeah, that probably would work if you were high enough on the screen. Armageddon does come down pretty fast, just that I’ve never bothered to use it unless I’ve got a point blank inferno hit to work with. Doing it off of a jab inferno against airdashing opponents might also be a cute use for it, although I haven’t attempted to do this in a match yet.
Quote Posted by Deathfist:
For Sentinel, you can use an artificial corner trick. By delaying your assist call by just a nanosecond or 2, you can do something like this on him. Even at mid-screen where the problem is…
=Dlk,call Capcom, dmk, Inferno, HOD. Blackheart begins throwing the inferno alittle before the Capcom hit lands, so the person is lifted up into the inferno [which grazes them] by Capcom. You can even double-bounce some characters with it.
Hmmmm. Yeah, BH is fairly easy to double bounce off of Commando if you throw it fast enough. Maybe I’ll have to experiment a little more with Sentinel timing on it in casual play. Most of the time that I DHC into Sentinel with BH is usually more of a thing where I’ll throw JD into HSF from when Sentinel is flying around too much. Usually one of those situations where they’re trying to stay at full screen, so I’ll call Commando and inferno/whatever. If they don’t stop flying and they think they’re going to wait for me to do something silly, that gets dangerous fast.
I’d add Sent/Cable/BH and BH/Storm/Sentinel to this.
You have to really be good with Cable to work with Sent/Cable/BH (i.e. good enough that you don’t need an AAA) and you have to be prepared to use umpteen different team orders because the base order isn’t necessarily the best one for every matchup – e.g. it’s probably best to go with BH/Cable/Sent against either MSP or Sent/AAA teams. I personally think Sent-A is probably the best Sentinel assist overall for the team.
BH/Storm/Sentinel, I’m not sure what the best assist scheme for it is. BH wants a setup assist and a space control assist from the other two, which basically leaves Storm-A/Sent-A or Storm-B/Sent-Y as your best two possibilities. The main hole in it is that neither assist possibility is really good for hitting off of sj. rh with simple poke-into-assist-into-super like you’d do with Commando or to a lesser degree with Cyclops. Cases where I know demons are going to hit, I’ll just throw the JD right out of the air in a cancel, and I suspect I’ll have to go to something like using launch into inferno as my main followup for the random demon hits that I’d use Commando to follow up on now. Sentinel works pretty well with a combination of Storm-B and BH, and Storm works very well with Sent-Y and BH, so the assist-free follow-up is the main thing that’s missing for me. If I learned some consistent follow-up I would probably seriously consider replacing Watts with it on anti-Magneto duty.
so how does blackheart fight sentinel?
can we go real in depth?
BH/AA vs. Sent/AA
BH/AA vs. Sent/projectile assist
BH/AA vs. sent/Both
BH vs. frying pan
BH vs. corner stomp traps
I’m sick of just calling smart cyclops covering with inferno xx hod
sent beats everything i have in the air; and it’s impossible to put yourself in a position to abuse sj.jab; flies around all my demons. and unless i get lucky and get a rush; doom rocks are useless and cyke AA is annoying at best and if i ever get cornered I’m pretty fucked.
BH fights Sentinel by trying to stay on the offensive as best he can. BH wants to keep Sentinel out of the air as best he can, and if Sentinel’s trying to fly backwards, then BH needs to zone him off. In all practicality against a good Sentinel you’re probably going to need an AAA on the level of Commando. I’ve used Cammy in Commando’s place because it covers a lot of the angles Sentinel likes to hover at, and I’ve seen more than one video of people using Guile for the same purpose. I’ve tried Guile on occasion, and it’s not bad and it’s an excellent setup assist; the main reason I don’t use it is because if you don’t want to use the meter to follow up with a super Guile’s assist itself does a lot less damage than either Cammy or Commando. Cammy’s main advantage to me is, she covers basically all the angles Sentinel wants to fly in other than full screen distance and directly overhead. The latter, BH can super jump and deal with on his own, which basically means that for all the other distances, if he’s got a flying Sentinel on his hands he can just call Cammy and throw inferno/HOD and know that unless Sentinel stops flying, he will go down.
Either way, the things you want from an AAA and another assist scheme are things that keep him out of the air over your head (and basically, nobody beats Sentinel without an ability to do that), and a way to keep him from just throwing mouth beams at you all day and meeting you in midair when you go to the top (ditto). From there, the best way to progress is by normal jumping forward. It goes over the top of cr. fierce, and it’s the least vulnerable to frying pan. Doom is not a very good assist against Sentinel at all, as I’m sure you’ve already observed. If a Sentinel is trying to maintain full screen distance, I’m actually more worried about that than being rushed down; BH can defend himself against Sentinel very well, it’s the ones that are smart enough to stay away from you that are the trick. My favored answer to that, however, is a combination of Sentinel’s drones and dark thunder. A Sentinel who sees another Sentinel’s drones coming at him will frequently interpret this as a sign that he can just jump over them and start flying forward. However, until he actually gets close to overhead this puts him in perfect dark thunder angles. Thus, that I use BH/Sent/Commando or other BH/Sent/AAA teams is as much designed to allow him to fight Sentinel as anything else.
If you get close to Sentinel, poke with st. short liberally to just press on him. You’ve seen Storms do this often in video. Getting directly over him and in a position to throw demons is also a good thing. If Sentinel gets hit with a demon out of the air, then following up with either pokes into Commando into super (use dark thunder here too unless you’re in the corner) or just snapping him out for an AAA character is the way to go here. If the character in the middle is Cable, it’s absolutely the way you want to go. If the character in the middle is Storm, it depends on how you feel about that fight; as I’ve said many times, I’m generally more worried about Storm than I am about Cable, because a lot more people know what they’re doing with Storm, even the ones that don’t know how to use hailstorm and it chips BH horribly, and BH has a lot of trouble chasing her down. (Like with Sentinel, you would actually rather that Storm tried to rush you than run away from you.)
In general, you want to be close to Sentinel. If you try running away from Sentinel, the only way you really win that is if you’re ahead already and he’s forced to put himself at risk, which usually gets him hurt. You want to cut off his ability to move horizontally, because your game is close range plus vertical. If you can cut that off, you win. If you can’t and he can turn it into a horizontal game, you’ll lose.
and remember that a storm or sent that is near off the top of the screen = free inferno (they won’t necessarily get hit, but you’re safe) . as long as they block or get hit, they can’t get down in time to hit you during recovery.
I think that happens if you hit him with commando but aren’t in time to do inferno xx hod. Also happens if you’re playing against runaway storm.
Sentinel is not easy (and I generally don’t even try) to hit with inferno off of Commando unless you’re in the corner. I tend to use dark thunder instead unless I’m close enough to the corner that inferno will hit anyway, which is about the same point where thunder won’t. Dark thunder drops them lower to the ground to get hit by more of HOD anyway, and it also is pretty consistently leaving them at an altitude where DHC’ing into HSF will usually hit.
Yo Stilt, how practical do you think the ground corner infinite is in match (the s.RK sjc one)? I tend to get it on Sents attempting HSF or mess up a FC’d spit beam via air dash approach but want to know if you’re able to think up any other possible uses for it.
Also…is there any ‘reliable’ solo assist kill that DOESN’T utilize supers (HoDx#) such as 'call drones/snapout, drones juggle assist trijump in with jab, /, df.FP…".
also, what’s the condition that makes inferno do a double bounce, instead of a 2 hit combo?
I also managed to counter hit a sentinel frying pan today with sj. jab. air to air footsies are so hard.
I’m going to go ahead and quote a few ppl from a LONG TIME AGO explaining the dual hit Inferno:
Dasrik:
It’s not easy. They have to be at a very specific height for the Inferno to hit twice. Cyclops assist seems to be the easiest to do this with (time the Inferno so it hits after the optic bullet). But it’s not easy.
BlackHeartKing:
there’s plenty of ways to go into the inferno semi-infinite but since you said you’re a beginner just use cyclops…
lk + cyc, lk…as second hit from cyc connects do the inferno and it should connect right after the bullet from cyc…
they should be a little over mid screen for this to work
ph!Lop!a :
i remember messing around with this a while back (after i saw a video of it) and i only got to work on certain characters. also, since i wasn’t using assist in the combo, i found it best if i cancelled as soon as the launcher hit. that put them in the right height to juggle the opponent.
low j.lk, j.lk, land, oc.fp XX inferno…
also, i think i was only able to get 3 infernos to combo in without assit. with assist, maybe 4 - 5.
Hope that helps…xD