yeh, he’s got one. I assume the nerf to his j.hp hitbox is what makes it not so good (they can walk out of it.) It’s only possible mid-screen, fwd.throw, cr.mp, j.hp. Works against all of Ryu’s DPs, but not against all of Ken’s (I think), and some of the other 4f reversals like Dj’s ex up kicks etc.
The safe jump is meaty, but they can walk back. If they crouch or are at neutral, they will get hit.
This is from Vanilla, but it still works:
[media=youtube]0o2AzYpYlf8[/media]
It still works? This is the setup I’ve known and thought didn’t work anymore. I might simply not have the timing down… But I guess that it being walk-back able really renders it useless.
3nigmat1c!? You still play this game? I haven’t played online in ages, but it seemed as though you had jumped ship and were exclusive to marvel, as far as I could tell. Glad to see you’re still grinding it out. I never contributed anything to the forums, but I got kinda curious tonight. I was hoping I would run across something new on here and although I haven’t I figured maybe someone would benefit from my 2 cents.
Now, in regards to the question about approaching shotos and the subsequent mention of the infamous 3 frame safe jump, I would like to start by saying how unnecessary, counter-productive, and risky I believe this technique to be.
If the metagame has yet to evolve beyond the simple “dragon punch when 2 or more stocks available” I would suggest you learn the closest possible ranges you can stand/crouch block and prevent the opponent from FADC’ing due to their move hitting too late during the active phase of their reversal. I do this to great effect vs Ruy players where Rog can stand right around 1/2 training block away and make it almost too enticing for your regular mediocre/online Ryu not to attempt a DP. This works, albeit with a lesser degree of “bait-factor” vs characters such as Ken/guile where you’ll have to wiggle and tempt them right around a block away from them.
Another option available to Rog would be to purposely stand close enough to bait and allow for the FADC in order to get rid of the meter and increase your chances of taking the round/set later on. This of course must be heavily weighed in with other factors such as life differences, meter available to you, mix up potential of opponent’s character post FADC, etc. And speaking of mix-up potential… a lot of the guessing games post FADC can be turned in your favor with the inclusion of a crouch tech OS focus attack. 2 characters I can think right of the top of my head are Fei long, and Sagat (with out angry scar loaded). These characters grab/dp/low guessing games becomes nearly useless since late teching will enable you to block the low, the cr. tech will tech a throw attempt, and the focus will absorb the vertical/non-armor breaking DPs and allow for a punish or back dash to safety pending on the character we’re talking about. This isn’t limited to this scenario so I would encourage some exploration, i.e. vs a blocked lk slash from oni. Alas, this being the most balanced game ever ; ) this technique it’s not without its faults. Although risky that shoto could always make a read on the aforementioned tech or simple a back dash and go for a tatsu or tiger knee, but that’s where your own crazy reversal reads come into play… and so the wheel of options keep on spinning.
There are a couple of other things I could mention, but I get the feeling I may get banned for writing to much and being overly boring. Before I conclude I do want to trace my steps back to my first comment regarding that 3 frame safe jump. In my experience I’ve found the set up to do one of two things: Make you realize your opponent will DP at the sight of a jump/pressure or absolutely ruin your momentum. I live in shoto city (fubarduck, Hsien chang, Viet, Haseeb) and if there is one thing I’ve learned to value over all else when playing rog, it would have to be momentum. You want to establish a strong wake-up pressure and throw game, if they were going to DP they would’ve done it at the sight of your jump or meaty pressure. From my experience, I find it extremely hard to accomplish that if you’re wasting your time on set ups that may or may not work depending on what DP version they opt to do, or if you’re timing is not spot on, or worse yet they simple walk back and there goes all my momentum! Being able to stay up close to your opponent pays dividends with Balrog, but that set up places you beyond optimal jab-jab pressure. Placing your opponent in undesirable situations where they have to guess should be one of your primary goals with any character, with Rog it just so happens to be on your opponents wake-up. Establishing a wake up game is extremely important, don’t allow a couple of angst filled reversals to deter you from your plan, they’ll open up… just be smart about it.
Hey Jonas, it’s been a while. Haven’t put down SF4, just testing the waters in other games. You know you can’t be a fighting game player in houston WITHOUT being at least competent in Marvel.
I agree and disagree with you. Also keep in mind that i’m the king of tl;dr and walls of text, so it’s unlikely that you’ll get banned. I went into the focus-tech (crouch-tech option select focus) in the art of punishing thread, definitely a good tactic that adds to the mind games. I’ve also explored, who’s dp FADC back/forward rog can punish (e.g. some opponents are actually -3 after dp fadc forward, I think Sakura’s one of them, only -8 backward).
The setup works against some of the 3f’s who matter. The timing isn’t as important as the distance. Usually i’ll buffer in a short after the jump so in the event they do walk back, I can hit them with a low and maintain momentum, or if i’m bad-ass that day for some reason his the cr.lk link into cr.lp into another combo.
I think that standing in range to get hit with the 2nd hit of DP can work, but that in general, the cast’s buttons at that range are much better than rogs (shoto cr.lk, cr.mk), so it’s really easy to lose your advantage. Because at 1/2 training block, I believe you’d be out of throw range, and at least at max distance for cr.lp . At one point in time i’d advocated not knocking sub 4f dp characters down and ending your combos with st.hk rather than a UKD, and headbutt, just so you wouldn’t give them a chance to breathe.
Haha, I hear you there. That’s def. marvel city these days.
Hmm, I can see how I might’ve contradicted my self in my statement suggesting one steer away from the 3 frame safe jump all the while advising to stand a whole block away from certain chars on wake up… ohh the irony. I still dislike the tactic on the whole basis that EVERYONE at UFO worth their mettle knows that set up too well and just walk back when they see me do it. At the end of the day I still do it to test how much I can get away with new opponents, but still feel strongly about establishing a strong presence and wake-up 50/50s by always being on my opponent’s face.
As I said before I opted to leave some things out before in fear of making the thread to stringy and convoluted, but I guess it’d be easy to digest if split into two. Also, I want to give further reasoning for shying away from the 3-frame safe jump and figured a healthy discussion may help the new comers and myself learn a thing of two.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but from my testing of the 3-frame safe jump OSing was rendered useless or rather extremely risky since you’ll be faced with A. (in the case of a OS cr sweep) A DP to the face as you’ll land in safely making the DP whiff activating the OS, or B. Having the opponent walk back and crouch making the jump-in whiff and once again activating the OS leaving you at an extreme disadvantage with the close cr. roundhouse. Either way it conflicts with how I play Rog nowadays, with a big emphasis on close cr. jab pressure and a huge emphasis on limiting my opponent’s options via option selects to include every jump-in even from a neutral state. I only play at the arc so I’m limited to the amount of testing I can perform so once again let me know if I’m missing something here.
Another thing I failed to point out and I’m glad you mentioned it was not going for the KD but instead ending the combo with something that leaves the opponent standing. Although I never self advocated it I feel it worth mention specially if stun is right around the corner or finishing the combo with a sweep/HB would not kill and diminish the momentum. But unlike you, I prefer to end with a mk dash upper (+1) if opponent is standing allowing for a frame trap via a cr. jab (with OS sweep of course), grab, or OH (ok, maybe online) to keep pressure active and momentum high. Ohh, and how could I forget… the gooteck’s work’s particularly well in that set up as well.
Hopefully this will open up the discussion for others to explore new avenues, or maybe I’ll just get some eyes to roll… either way, good hear from you man. You should come to Austin next weekend for the Capcom tourney, I’ll be there running and playing in the AE pools. Always good to see other Rog players, I got some juicy stuff that you may or may not have in your repertoire and I’m sure you do as well for me.
I’m planning on making it to Austin, hopefully work doesn’t get in the way. I’ll either catch up with you then or later online.
On the topic of O/S getting blown up with invincibles, you just need to delay the O/S. (reference the viper O/S here) Notice how it doesn’t get blown up with hp.tk. mk.ru is definitely a better option across the board. More frame advantage, closer to the opponent for frame traps and tick throws. i certainly haven’t applied the technique, but then again I don’t really use combos :[
Hey Their Mike Tyso… Balrog users quick question (I guess it’s more of a request) anyway I figured this would be the most ideal thread to ask it in.
To the point I’m looking for some friends to play and practice with online. I need to level up my Balrog. I have been using the threads to learn as much as I can which is great but I think I need to play some people better then me so they can tell me where I should start focusing next. I play on PC and PS3. On PC my name is GeneralSlacks. On PS3 my PSN is TyrantBaal and my in-game tag is Sky.
Thanks in advanced for the help.
I’ve seen a few videos lately of Balrogs FADCing a DS mid-combo with a forward dash and linking(?) to a crouching jab to keep the combo going.
In this thread: Rog's crazy combos; are they worth it?
there is a discussion about whether doing combos like that are even worth it. That’s a great thread and I’m not trying to reopen that discussion here. At the 2:30 mark in the video on the first post, -R- uses that technique in his combo against Blanka. I just want to know HOW to execute that part of the combo. I’ve tried to do it in the training room and I just can’t ever get the cr.Jab to connect after canceling the DS. Can someone please break it down for me?
use fierce dash straight, doesn’t work with the others. Start with mk.ru on a standing opponent. Start with Akuma as a training dummy, it should make it pretty easy.
Edit: This/These combos may help a bit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL465EB3F77ED8C007&v=3ZC9moVGt_4&feature=player_detailpage#t=62s
So I’ve played on a old Vanilla SFIV arcade cabinet recently and was tearing some guys brand new holes. I’m not sure what happened from Arcade SFIV to SSFIV, but it seemed like Balrog was hitting like a hard truck.
Anybody’s got his changelogs for SFIV (arcade) > SFIV (console) and SFIV (console) > SSFIV? Seems to me that he is much, much weaker right now. I was under the impression that he had been buffed back to Vanilla status after 2012’s patch, leaving out the headbutt recovery nerf.
Remember that the damage across the board was nerfed. That’s probably what you’re feeling. In Vanilla play Sagat and do a bnb into U1, you’ll see similar damage, or play Gen and do a regular bnb super to U1 and you’ll see as well. From Vanilla to Super, damage was reduced across the board so matches lasted longer, and it felt like most characters didn’t hit as hard.
So look at it this way: he was buffed back to vanilla status sans headbutt recovery, but with the SSF4 damage nerf given to the entire cast.
I guess that makes sense, thanks for the fast answer. I also vaguely remember a U1 nerf that came with AE if I remember correctly. It was never buffed back, correct? I’ve played a bit with C.Viper recently and her ultra seems to hit so hard. It makes me envious at times.
Yeh, Viper’s U1 has always hit hard, it wasn’t until v2012 (i think) that her damage in general was adressed and nerfed to some extent, but not a lot. I don’t remember a nerf to U1 specifically, someone else may remember. I remember the nerf to headbutt was generally a nerf to U1 as that’s the most common way to confirm into it, and grounded U1 does about 50-75 more damage than juggled U1 also.
Quick question guys:
whats your method for doing backdash ultra?
I’m having trouble
In theory you should be able to charge Back/D-Back back dash . forward back forward. Kinda the same concept of doing U1 after a focus.
I’m curious on why you would do a backdash Ultra.
Some.people just can’t help pressing buttons after safejumps and don’t use OSes, so my guess would be that it could be effectively used to punish predictablr opponents. It coupd also be used to beat linked canceled cr.mk > fireballs on block I think.
Backdash Ultra is a good confirm off of a Focus attack. You have a bit longer to confirm off of a backdash than a fwd dash. And also backdash has invincibility. RyuReiatsu’s example about cr.mk xx fireball is a good example.
Focus attack (charge) bwd, fwd, bwd gets you a backdash, so, just focus attack holding back, then wiggle fwd, bwd, fwd, bwd, and then hit 3P/3K has his feet touch the ground. That’s the most consistent way i’ve done it. The timing is weird though.
Coming back to the cr.mk xx hado example. IF you’re trying to punish cr.mk xx hadou with focus dash Ultra., FA, fwd.dash Ultra won’t work if you fa the cr.mk, but backdash ultra probably will. So there’s that too.
Edit: that works for linked and canceled cr.mk fireballs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL465EB3F77ED8C007&v=3ZC9moVGt_4&feature=player_detailpage#t=40s
So after watching -R- and PR Balrog play a lot, I’ve decided to brush up on my execution. I was just wondering what exactly are the inputs for an armor cancel headbutt on wakeup? My guess was Ex low straight or smash and then on armor into headbutt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL465EB3F77ED8C007&v=a1ASBOHUEwI&feature=player_detailpage#t=130s that shows my inputs for a couple of common armor cancels. There’s also this video which shows how to armor cancel using negative edge. [media=youtube]Ni4-qtSDm_0[/media]
He doesn’t show any inputs, but you can watch his hands. There are a lot of ways to do it. Try it the negative edge way for a bit and if you can’t get it semi consistently i’ll drop some notation down for you.
He has been rebuffed, but the one major change between Vanilla and AE 2012 is the sheer number of characters and the changes each character experienced. When the number of characters increases, the number of bad matchups increase. Back in Vanilla, the really bad matchups for Boxer were Sagat and Abel, maybe VIper. And that was pretty much it. Everything else was 5:5 or the like. Furthermore, Boxer had a far st. LP that hit crouchers. This is no longer possible so poking from a distance whilst alternating between stand and crouching is no longer possible.