I played you today at the dingy downtown arcade and asked you about the kara cancle lp dragon question. You might remember me, I’m the shoto player who tends to be a little obnoxious sometimes. Used to carry around a big green hiking back pack everywhere.
Anyway, I must say that you have posted one of the most well rounded and comprehensive answers to a technical question on SRK that I’ve seen so far. (No homo)
Gunna start practicing asap.
Any other tips ya got for my game would be helpful. 'Preciate the tip on how quick Shippu is for reversals, for example.
Thanks man
Are you talking about after the hurricane ends or in between blocked hurricane kick hits? Just to be clear - are you saying it is possible to reversal dp and reversal sa3 Akuma’s lk,mk,fk hurricanes?
yeah if you block every single hit of any of the spinning kicks you can reversal super or reversal jab shoryu. But the hardest one to catch is the short spinning, imho, because you don’t really expect akumas to throw out a short spinning kick when you’ve blocked their forward.
I’d like some help with a prob I’ve been having trying to connect Ken’s low lp, lk, lp >> SA3 combo. My prob lies in landing the the second low lp. I figure it works on most crouching chars but it only works intermittently on some standing chars. Info on low lk, lp, lk >> SA3 would be great too, though that connects much more often for me.
There are reasons to open a combo with a cr jab but from what your describing you shouldn’t try too.
You want to do cr lk, cr lk, xx SA3 almost always until you’re familiar with which characters (cr lk x3) xx SA3 works on as cr lk x3 does the most damage.
Some people do cr lk, cr lp, cr lk xx SA3 especially the inexperienced Ken’s @ Funland because it is debatadley easier to execute but it requires drastically more range to connect than cr lk x2 >> SA3, although slightly less range than cr, lk x3 >> SA3.
Basically never use cr lk, cr lp, cr lk xx SA3 because the extra damage is almost always not worth the risk of the last short wiffing, so just stick to cr lk, cr lk, xx SA3 as it works on everyone and is more flexible with tick setups.
If you need help executing you’ll find a whole bunch of crazy ways if you search around this forum, but I’ll explain what I consider the easiest method and the one I use:
The input is simple but the concept is slightly more complex: (hold :d: ) , quickly tap :lk: twice, (starting from down) :qcf: :qcf: , then drum :lk: :mk: :hk: .
Now I must state (THIS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE INTERPRETED AS JUST SIMPLY BUFFERING REALLY FAST AFTER THE 2 CR LK!!!)
It is imperative to understand that cr lk CHAINS into its self so it has the same buffering properties as other chains.
Basically you need to tap low short twice very quickly to cause the 2 cr shorts to chain and combo, from here you can quickly buffer 2 :qcf: during the animation of the second low short (even the first if you’re quick) and not have to worry about getting a standing short for the second hit. This works because chain inputs are similar to auto combos (think KI) and you can input them much faster than they will actually execute, so by the time the second low short is coming out you already have time to easy buffer the super and drum the kicks.
Another example of chains working in the same manner is Yuns jab short strong SA3.
Many beginners have trouble executing this because they think they need to do 2 :qcf: after the strong and still link SA3 (if anyone actually does this props to them but it isn’t needed). You only need to press jab short strong quickly and you can buffer the 2 :qcf: 's during the strong without worry of it executed as crouching.
As far as opening a combo with Ken with a crouching jab this is only something you see mainly in JPN vids due to the intensity of the comp, plus the combo is quite deceptive in it’s purpose and execution.
but what the fuck, why not explain that one too, (Dander can you let me know if either EdMa or YiStarWitRamosJr uses this?) :
You’ll find many monstrous Kens using this, Hirai, Mokomokofu, Kaishi just to name a few, and you will mostly find it in shoto vs shoto matches, although it cn be useful on a few other characters. Essentially the combo APPEARS as:
“Standing Ken dashes in @ other standing shoto in what looks like a dash in throw attempt, but instead hits with: low :lp: , low :lp: , low :lk: xx SA3”.
This is the only combo you will probably see starting off a low jab and if someone does it to you hit or block, they either are being cocky or they REALLY know their shit!
Basically their are two very important things going on in this opener, First your opponent is chaining low jab (3 frames) as opposed to low short (4 frames) in an attempt to beat out your throw tech. Throws have a 3 frame start up in 3S and also have zero priority. This basically means they are beat out by any move that has either a 1 frame start up, 2 frames, or 3. So the likely hood of a dash cr jab to beat out a standing throw tech is higher than a dashing cr short. It also has a chance to beat out a crouching tech attempt by the opponent as your jab will probably be initiated first.
However this only explains the use of cr jab as an opener and given the previous logic about 3 low hitting chains vs 2 low hitting chains you would assume that cr lp, cr lk, would be superior to cr lp, cr lp, cr lk.
But the tricky part is that they are not actually inputting cr :lp: , cr :lp: , cr :lk: ???WTF!!11one.
What these player are actually using is a brilliant option select technique, which just happens to deal with the off chance that your opponent saw you dash in and started to throw a couple frames earlier, which can catch the cr lp during its 2 inactive frames.
The actual input is this: :f: :f: , ( :d: hold), :lp: + :lk: , :lp: + :lk: , :lk: , (during the :lk: animation :qcf: x2), then drum :lk: :mk: :hk: .
Using this method executes the same combo that beats throws but will also crouch tech on the chance that the opponent was able to throw you first.
Outside of this neat option select there arn’t really more reasons to use cr lp over cr lk as an opener unless your in a situation where you really need the extra speed.
the best punisher (without jumping attack) was Close HP->SRK MP (1hit)->SA3, except for Hugo and Makoto, you can perform Close MP->Close HP->SRK MP (1hit)->SA3 on both (at point blank obiously)
lol @ this combo, those 2 extra hits from the super better kill em or that’s a big waist of meter. Although you do guarantee that they won’t quick roll…
Thanks for another thorough answer RTSD.
The option select info is pretty sweet, though I figure I need to get a better hang of kara srk before putting something like that into my game. If I play you at Funland and its not busy with comp I’d like you to show or tell me a few more examples of option selects. Other than forward+throw for the parry and what you mentioned I can’t think of anything else.
Kens best option select is his SGGK (don’t bother with the name explination) kara throw with towards and close strong.
Example: I tick another ken with a cr jab @ point blank and he blocks low. If I want to use the cr jab as a tick throw setup, rather than walk up throw the other Ken I can walk up, very quickly wiff a down or forward parry input, put the stick back to neutral ASAP, then attempt to throw the other Ken with: (towards hold) close mp ~lp + lk. What happens is if your opponent crouch teched you will down parry the cr jab and hit with a close mp because the parry frames did not allow the kara throw to happen. You can then confirm from the down parry, knowing the close mp will hit, into a lp dp, kara lp dp. If your opponent did not try to crouch tech but blocked low anticipating a fake setup with 2 cr lk followup, they will be thrown with Kens forward throw by the Kara throw. Since the kara throw is only 1 frame slower than a normal throw, if your opponent tried to standing tech your throw from the tick you will still tech their throw because throws allow (i think 3) frames of delay to allow a player to tech. This technique is counterable with a multi hit wakeup (eg: hp srk) or fast non throwable high hitting moves (Chuns towards and rh) however both those options would have beaten a normal tick throw attempt anyway so there is little reason to not use this tactic.
Essentially you are using Kens close towards, mp input to kara for the possibility to confirm the close mp into a combo, not to gain any sort of extra distance.
Illan_3rd go to youtube and type in “kara shoryuken” to check out TheShend’s tutorial. This will clearly illustrate one method of performing a kara srk. RTSD’s method, posted in this thread a page or two ago, seems to be superior. That should be your next stop if you want to learn it.
Dander already tried to explain things to you.