Hello I had an interesting discussion with someone on quora about whether “beat em ups” (along the lines of Double Dragon, final fight, TMNT 89) are technically considered fighters.
I said that they’re technically not fighters for one main reason, easily manipulable computer opponents are your only opponents.
I know there are many kinds of games blurred line like for example Power Stone has the intelligence single opponent of a fighting game but has the moveset and geography of a beat em up, and enough unique elements to make it its own thing. guardian Heroes uses the same engine to have both a beat em Up game which is the main quest and a fighting game where up to six people (6 players on the original Saturn version 12 on the Xbox 360 Live remake) can play using the beat em up engine against each other. And enemies are more formidable in Guardian Heroes that a typical beat him up AI for henchmen, both in intelligence and in power.
I’m not saying beat them ups are not good games. if I were to say beat em ups are not worthy of back-to-back competition, I would be a hypocrite because I am the world record holder according to twin galaxies in Simpsons arcade one person one credit top score on a real machine.
In addition to the simpler moveset the one thing fighting games has that a beat 3m up does not have is an unpredictable CPU AI.
Maybe someone who tries for score records on fighting games vs computer opponents could tell me how predictable a computer opponent is, especially compared to a henchman in a beat him up game?
Based on my experience, figuring out even a level four computer opponents to the point of being perfect as fast as possible to get a world record is impossible.
I guess in one sense every fighting game is its own thing with its unique identity. Likewise are so many crossovers that they all seem to have elements from previous other games. The other guy on Quora was mainly arguing that fighters came from beatemups and that the first fighter, the original Street Fighter, was designed be mostly played versus the CPU.
Just like humans everyone are each a unique individual yet everyone is also part of the same entire human family on Earth.
I think one of the biggest things that separates a brawler from a fighting game (besides the obvious vs component) is the level of button inputs for moves.
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Well Guardian Heroes blurs the line. Most of the action takes place on a flat vertical plane just like Street Fighter, unlike most brawlers, and there are special moves that you could accomplish with all the characters even the ones you earn after you defeat in the versus mode. And the AI’s moves are more like Street Fighter opponents than henchman in Double Dragon, especially when you turn up the difficulty. Plus swapping planes makes it more of a brawling element.
if it’s all defined by moves than one game that would not fit in a traditional fire would be divekick. there are only two buttons and you either press one the other both or neither and various combinations. And usually the combinations are not hidden combo tricks but basic controls to jump up jump back jump forward and special moves which is both buttons together.
since Power Stone doesn’t have many special moves and is played along a flat plane with jumping as opposed to a vertical plane of just back and forth jumping, what Powers Stone be considered more of a competitive brawler, with powerstroke tuned adding platform and cutthroat elements a la Super Smash Brothers?
And that’s the beautiful thing about games being different. Someone will find a game they like somewhere. Hate the long combos of Killer Instinct? Try Eternal Champions, where every second hit is blockable.
Blures the line is not the same as being a focus.
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Reminds me of a story back in 1989 or 1990.
Was at a Mountain Mike’s Pizza. In the arcade room you had Shinobi and Double Dragon next to each other. Played Double Dragon and another older kid entered as 2P. Somewhere along the line we got pissed at each other and I kicked him, cancelled into the 3 to 4 knees to the face cancelled into throwing over my shoulder (I threw Spike/Jimmy Lee; not the actual person). Then he shoved my head into the door frame (there were no doors attached to the door frame). It kinda hurt but not really. His dumbass friend kept hyping him up lol.
The AI/CPU is predictable. Mortal Kombat II is the obvious one.
Fighters have different win conditioned and priority in gameplay mechanics that make them separate if were looking at it in the single player aspect. Then follows the competitive nature on multiplayer aspect,
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I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here, and need to contact an actual publication if you’re looking to write long-winded, video game articles.
Aside from the fictional violence it depends on the game.
Some beat em ups keep things simple with set moves for both the player and the enemies with maybe temporary items thrown in the mix, others add some sort character progression where moves, stat boosts or what not are gained.
Technically fighting games are a byproduct of the beat em up genre so certain things are carried over and of course because of fighting games being the more popular product, some beat em up games adopted aspects from fighters.
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Why haven’t there been any Guardian Heroes vs. mode tournaments at Evo?
Gary, the serious answer is because the 6.player fight was considered an “add on” not the primary focus. They allowed the users to play with level sliders to see what would make a fair match vs defining a tournament standard to make it balanced. It was never designed to be a serious tournament game. It was an add on that was easy to add, fun to play, but Treasure and Sega didn’t want to balance it for an official tourney ruleset. Sega USA and Sega Japan spent more time and money fighting each other than making “Saturn offers what Playstashuns” commercials
Also would it be one on one, up to six players cutthroat, 2 teams of 3, or up to 3 teams of 2? And more options open up on the 360 live version with 12 players in any team combination.
It’s not really that fighting games originated from beat em up because there had been tons of PVP and 1v1 games prior to the existence of beat em ups.
Because it’s broken as fuck
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Radiant’s answer is my answer for the TLDR NSFW crowd.
They didn’t stop them from having Smash Bros Brawl tournaments.
Smash Bros generates money. Guardian Heroes would not have.
Smash at Evo had nothing to do with the game and everything to do with getting paid.
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Game choices at major Tournaments and conventions all depends on drawing in a crowd (thus selling tickets/admissions), there a promotional deal (which the tourney or Con getting paid by a studio/publisher), or there some other deal going on where money is exchanging hands.
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Yeah, but no competitive Guardian Heroes players have been accused of soliciting sex from minors.
That’s because there are no competetive Guardian Heroes players.
Also considering Wiz’s accusations, he’s one of them.