What I currently do with Valentine (and I’m sure it isn’t optimal) is:
throw XX cr.lk, cr.mk, cr.hp, jump XX j.hp, air dash XX j.mp, j.hk, land, jump XX j.lp, j.mp, j.hk, land, dash XX s.lp, s.mp, s.mp, s.hk, s.hk, s.hk, qcf+k
It probably makes sense to do it without the [cr.lk, cr.mk] at the start for damage scaling reasons.
i sincerily dont like the way that you 2 keep with this crusade against the hitstun scaling tbh, i for the record find it as a valid and very logical way to work on a combo system, just because you actually preffer the ips, it doesnt make less valid the HS, specially when other games like GG have made use of it and having a solid gameplay and combo system
it was this kind of thing that made the ah3 community so tedious and annoying to interact (the continuous bashing to other games), lets not make the same mistakes of them
i know what mike has said before, but for the record ther is not hs on hnk, and the 2 infinets on GG are way impractical, also i still think tht there is nothing wrong with loops, but every game plays different specially when you consider the desing philosophies behind them
I like that, I’ll have to try it.
The reason I was working with that quite simple combo is I’m practicing a couple of simple BnB’s for each character so I have something solid. I’m playing with team of 3 from the start (Val/Para/Dbl). It’s too much if I try to learn crazy restand combos and loops right of the bat, I’ll settle for easy bnb into super for 5k at first, that I can play with and execute 100%, then go from there 
Also funny coincidence: Was just watching latest UltraChenTV archive, and ultradavid explaining how he had be confused by the IPS, in what was basically the same combo I was confused about (different normals but same concept) 
Something I’m not quite clear on yet:
How do IADs and Flight sections work between sections? You can get 1 air cancel without starting a new section if you use it early in the combo. Do you miss your chance for the free section if you get to stage 5 before using it?
My (very limited) understanding so far was that you basically have the entire first jump until landing/restand for free (tracked, but not enforced). Doesn’t matter if you airdash cancel or whatnot.
But if you end up at stage 5 (like with the combo from throw, or with a link combo on ground), its already enforcing IPS, then you have to follow the rules, so any flights or IADs start a new section that has to be started with a non-tracked normal.
Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m probably very wrong on this.
Quick quesion guys:
So the IPS resets whenever you switch to another of the characters in your team during a combo? Let’s say I do a full combo that includes a chain started with a cr.:lk: with my 1st character, then I super > DHC into my next character and I continue the combo. Would I be able to continue the combo with a cr.:lk: from my next character?
Yes
No, see, the problem is that, your spelling aside, HSD is nebulous at best and punishes skill at worst.
HSD prevents long combos whether they’re infinite or not. Furthermore, there’s no logical sense to it-- you can’t say “this works” without testing it to see if it works or not. Example: Marvel 3, I command throw with X-23. I then Mirage Feint H into j.MHS j.MMHS but wait! The combo won’t work ingame past the first 3 hits. In fact, if I’m trying to do the combo there is no indicator of whether or not I fucked up the input or if HSD simply makes the combo impossible. The rules are hidden from the players, which is frustrating and discourages the more creative combos.
With a system like Skullgirls, you can write down a combo and know if it works or not. No gravity scaling to fuck with you, no HSD hiding in the shadows making you question your own sanity or execution. You can plan out a combo in advance and try it. In fact, you can even freestyle combos during a fight which NEVER happens in other modern games. In a HSD situation, freestyling would end up with you attempting a move that cannot connect and leaving yourself viciously unsafe.
And, finally, we put up with the bullshit because HSD promises to prevent infinites, which is hilarious given that it doesn’t! Many infinites get through HSD! Just look at Marvel 3, or watch Mike Z’s last BB Evo matches, or more! Hitstun Deterioration is a painful vaccine that causes a separate illness and yet it doesn’t even prevent the initial illness it was supposed to vaccinate. Good riddance.
It counts each character’s moves as different moves. Note that assists count as moves used by that character, so if you had cr.:lk: set as an assist, used said assist, and then DHCed into that character, the game would have already recorded that character’s cr.:lk: as a burstable starter in the IPS.
Dunno if this is the place to put this, but the reason I dislike games that promote long combos is that they steadily increase the chances of one touches. Not to ring in the old timey flag but SF2 had it right with ToDs being exceptionally rare and situational. So whats the problem with ToDs? I feel they reward a player too greatly, if one touch = death then essentially that one button becomes an I win button. This is somewhat less relevant in team games, but too allow that argument is akin to saying solo chars shouldn’t be used.
The idea that IPS actually celebrates that idea is kinda obscure to me honestly. If the parasoul combo is anything to go by then what exactly is the difference between that and an infinite? It kills your char from the word go. I dunno if it was intended that you could switch chars during combos but the fact that you can essentially run through 2 chars strings really. really. makes me miss HSD. Just the fact that it looks fancy cannot possibly be an argument…they don’t even look that fancy, they’re just loops with different starters. s.lk xx string, c.lk xx string, s.mp xx string, c. mk xx st-
In a team game where you need to eliminate the entire opposing team to win, one touches are fine since they help alleviate the slippery slope that is losing one of your own characters.
One of the things that made Marvel 2 so hype was the fact that, even when your opponent was down to one character, you still had to contend with the fact that they could OCV you out of one mistake.
[media=youtube]M2FdjP60FO0[/media]
Resets are so good in this game that learning 100% combos won’t really be that big of a deal. Learning solid combos that you can go into resets from, on the other hand, is gonna be more important.
With Parasoul if I do cHP, jdMK, jdMK fast it works fine, but if I delay it, the second jdMK triggers IPS (this works against Parasoul and Cerebella). Is it considered another chain just from delaying it? The inputs are the exact same.
From the Wiki:
1: Free: Optional section for a sequence of jump-in attacks.
2: Free: First ground section.
3: Watched: First air section or second ground section.
4: Watched: Optional special case section if opponent lands on their feet after stage 3.
5: Limited: Maximum stage, same as watched and can trigger an Infinite Escape.
Not sure why that was necessary. It’s exactly what I said in the section you quoted.
It elaborates on what Stage 4 is. I just figured that having more detailed information in the thread would be helpful.
Just checked this, it’s true! WHY THE FSCK didn’t anyone mention this in the bugs thread? That’s TOTALLY a mistake, nothing is meant to work this way. This will be fixed. Are there other cases?
Factual correction - there is both hitstun scaling and gravity scaling in HnK, the gravity scaling is what makes basketball combos work - the fact that the OTG-hit-bounce doesn’t get affected by HSD is the other part of it. And the Zappa infinite in GG is perfectly practical (if only I could find that best-of-GG vid…)
Hi! I used to read your posts on Dustloop, I’m a big fan.
Due to a bug (the fact that it is initially spawned from a non-attack state) Fortune’s head is the only thing in the game not affected by the IPS. That’s why you’re allowed to do a a slide->bite each time, even though Fortune herself has to use a different normal to start each chain. Other characters aren’t allowed to use projectiles this way. If this were fixed you’d still get a few reps but not a huge number. The other fixes I suggested before are also valid choices, but that’s most of what contributes to this particular combo.
More?
Agree with the first statement, but I am iffy on the second. Are you saying that this problem (if indeed it is a problem) can be fixed by making the combo much more difficult to do? If so then I disagree.
An execution barrier simply delays the dominance of oppressive but difficult strategies. A lot of the stuff we do routinely at MVC2 today (AHVBx3, Ironman flight cancels into infinite, Magneto loops) were considered extremely difficult to do at the early stages of the game. Roll-cancels in CVS2 were deemed to be “too difficult to be practical” when they were first encountered, but now they are integral to the gameplan of almost every character. Even T-Hawk’s SSFT2 loop was also “impossibly difficult” once upon a time.
Simply put: I do not believe that you can take an easy combo that is “too good” and fix it by making it more difficult to do. That’s the fighting game equivalent of sweeping it under the rug. It’s still there, and still too good. You just don’t see it as often… for the time being.
Ahh that’s really good to hear. With things like that and the slight fixes to Ms. Fortune and a few other specific moves, it sounds like people will really have to reach for the giant combos, and that there will be more reason to shoot for resets in some circumstances. I like it.
Repost from the Parasoul thread since i’d like to know why
From what i can gather, it seems that sometimes the s.LK after the LP Shot is still on stage 2 and then any hit after that goes into stage 3. It;s just weird that sometimes it does activate and sometimes it doesn’t. If it was consistent that maybe it would make more sense.
E: that combo doesn’t work on cerebella and peacock (the tear explosion whiffs), so if you want to try it, try Valentine or something; she seems the easiest to get midscreen loops off of.
Oh I don’t think it has to be oppressively difficult, and I agree with what you said and that difficulty can’t be your primary safeguard against combos that are too strong. That’s putting too much value on robotic execution rather than on decision making and player reading, which is what’s way more interesting.
With good games, I think you see that combos usually have a range, right. There’s a combo that’s pretty reliable that’s maybe 80% optimized. If you want to push it to that next level, it may take twice the effort but it’s there. There’s room for an executional player to distinguish themselves from the crowd, but it’s not so strong that it’s more important than everything else. I think Skullgirls has that going on, too.
But I do like seeing the difficulty play into it especially in moments of tension. Because when someone does overcome the lights, crowd and pressure and they do start hitting their difficult combo, that really speaks to their nerve as a player. And it’s exciting.
It’s about hitting that sweet spot where you get all those good dynamics going, while still making the system accessible to new players. So I’m glad I only have to play games and not make them 