How does it feel to know that you're playing a(n arguably) bottom-tier character?

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
41

well … my BP should have been 7000 and my PP was acctually up to 3300 … but thanks to xbox live and their network faults today … (just recieved a message from them) … i had 4 mid match disconnects with shit players … dropping my pp to 2600 something and my bp to 6900 something … i have never been this irritated in ages !! …(dont ask why i didnt quit after the 2nd disconnect… i basicly thought it was a hichup from my end … but then i got the message and im gonna stop till they resolve the damn issue … )

in other news …
im getting the hang of hakan … and hes finally working out alot better than before …

  • most major implementation i noticed on myself was the increased use of safe jump HK … and less dive spam … in some matchups is just a much more favorable state to be in …

  • also … theres been slight but notable FADNC use … still not to a master dasher level but im finding more value to it … especially when theres an FA attempt from both ends … hakan almost certainly wins the cake in that situation 100 % of the time with DNC … i love it !!

  • ive also come to realize that rose is a bitch … plain and simple … (need to test if spiral on block can be punished by LK dive … probably can … but i would probably use HK dive to catch her backdash … just thinking out loud here )

  • cammy’s rushdown is also too good … very difficult to brush off a good cammy …

  • bisons walk speed and dash make his matchup increasingly hard the more i look at it … is just annoying … need to go more to the lab on this one …( i wonder if blocked crusher gives free dive … same with scissors … )

and ive come accross a new breed of turtles … people that jump back forever … till they piss you off … (im really bitter over those points right now … lol )

things to improve on:

  • need matchup experience …
  • more FADNC applications to be explored …
  • better excecution … i say this every time cuz its just so important to have with hakan …although i am getting better …
  • explore a little trick i have in mind ( will keep it under wraps till its finalized :wink: … )

also … something about the cammy matchup …
i found it easier to do >LK into jf.HK for the safe jump after slide press instead of the st.MP into jf.HK … it just seems to give a cleaner crossup HK … (i would like more input from you guys on this if you have the time :slight_smile: )

oh and deejay …
lame deejays are extremely hard to get in on … i can almost batter a rushdown deejay now … but once he just sits there n does nothing but reaction db.MK and the every now n then boring fireball … i feel lost … any tips on this ?? … guile is alot easier to manage in this aspect because granted he has better recovery … if he lames it out you can still kinda get in … plus its easy to crossup his flashkick … and his cr.HK recovery is quite punishable …

UPDATE:
ROSE:
soul spiral can be punished with LK dive (escapable by normal mash or backdash )
if rose attempts backdash right after she can be punished with MK dive
(tested after cr.LP,cr.LK,cr.MP, SPIRAL (all types) )

soul spiral can technicly be punished by f.LK into HP slide or cr.LP into LP slide … this is a more garanteed punish if the spirals are deep … (spiral recovery from -4 to -8 )

if oiled, its a garanteed rocket … (silly me why didnt i think of that first ! lol )
BISON:
LK scissors unpunishable
MK, HK, EX scissors punish with LK dive (loses to cr.LK spam and backdash)
MK, HK, EX scissors into backdash punish with MK dive
LP, MP, HP crusher punished with LK dive (NOTE: bison must be in recovery close to hakan )
EX crusher unpunishable

42

Good finds, EMP. I’m learning a lot from your learning.

43

so I took my hakan on a test drive in last weeks winner stays on … lol OMG the amount of excecutional mistakes i did … i basicly killed myself … every time … lol
unfortunately only one of my matches made it to the stream so atleast you guys can see how its coming along … :stuck_out_tongue:
i wish i had my match with DBUK’s blanka up, although i lost it was a very close and intense fight and was very enjoyable … down to the last scratch of health and last round for both of us… my favorite set of the day …

heres my set with worstgief lol …
[media=youtube]Bu8b2kJwO9w[/media]
skip to 1:30:10 for my set …

i really need to work on those anti airs … and for crying out loud i have to stop killing myself >___>

off note:
i played a few casual sets against logan’s dudley and wiseblade’s el fuerte …
LK dive beats dudley’s f.HP :smiley:

and fuerte is an annoying bastard… but the matchp is so much fun … and its deffinately winnable …
the interesting thing is that he can set up his grab on fuzzy guard to catch you after a knockdown just like we setup dives … i did not know that (or not realize that) till i played against him …

still it was a good test drive before sunday …

i got destroyed by problem x’s seth … i might have to consider a counter pick if i end up facing him again on sunday as i dont think i fully understand the matchup with hakan yet as i thought i did … his seth has evolved quite nicely …

44

Just random note bison lk scissors can be punished with reversal 720 unless he only gets a perfect 1-hit scissor.

45

Really? OH SNAP!

You sure, whats the frame data on LK scissors again?

And yo EMP, good stuff man, that was nice considering you’ve only just started using Hakan. You mixed up well and showed some 2012 new tricks, but dont give everything away y’know ;). Haha, keep it up!

46

check my post before that for LK scissors punish …
also dudleys >HP is punishable with LK dive :stuck_out_tongue:

i know u were kidding about not giving everything away … but heres my phylosophy … when u give everything you know … people cme up with punishes … and then you learn to overcome those … and only then will you really excel … (available in MS office 2011 :stuck_out_tongue: ) … its what i did with juri and sim … and i intend to do the same with hakan …
if you want to know the true potential of your character … u need to have opponents that know your tricks just like you know theirs

47

^Emperor cow, be careful with the close 360ks against grapplers, they can ultra it! Its not grab invincible. good thing he never figured it out.

48

lol thx for the advice … i actually ate the ultra online a few times :S … i just spammed it cuz i knew he didnt know what to do … it was fun trolling him :stuck_out_tongue:

49

360k is definitely a great move to use against Gief, though. so good idea.

50

i started off playing street fighter with Dan as my main so i guess u can say i love to play with character ppl say suck just to show them hey he isn’t really that bad… I then went to main Hakan in SSF4 but got tired and couldnt really have the patience to learn every single thing about him till i ran on a couple of tutorial videos by samuri drew and Option Select which made me run it back with hakan and learn him all over again. i went thru trial mode 3 time to make sure i had the timing right on everything and basically ended up learnin drew oil set ups in his video ever since then ive been enjoying the feelin i get from playing hakan. Not only that i get nothing but positive feedback when i win matches online with him it keep my spirit up.i just wish there were more tourny where im from which is bridgeport, connecticut.

51

Not true, if your close to Bison (normal grab range), you can U1 Bison When you see the flash, Bison is still considered grounded. Its trick as F*$#$# and its one frame so it has to be a guess, not worth it but I’ve done it several times. Also Un oiled and you know he’s going to Ex Crusher. EX oil up, Bison goes through it.

52

sorry i should have been more clear … i meant on block

53


Straford, CT has a VERY solid scene. Literally one town over from you according to Google Maps :wink:
Get out there and get oily!

54

LoL I go to downtblowthis.com tournaments alot it ran by John Rambo DSP and Howard but i never enter cause im not good on stick with hakan. i can only use pad

55

Then enter and use pad?
o_O
Quit making excuses! You’ve got a great scene and you just complained about not having enough tournaments! Get out there and get wet!

56

LoL i did just do that and u prove me wrong i just put myself down alot don’t know why.

57

update again … :stuck_out_tongue:
so i got my hakan to a B+ today (yaay :P) and my PP still seems solidly stable in the lower mid 3000s …i think i got it up to 3600 at one stage but then it dropped down again …lol (blame nebbiez … ill get to that later lol)

one thing I’ve done was simply put hakan on the side for a while … and play with my old mains juri and sim … the reason i did this is that i felt like i wasnt progressing with hakan and i needed something of a mental reset … soo… after like a good two weeks of hakanlessness i noticed a few things …

i started doing the LP,LP,LP block string alot more efficiently on both hit and block and follow it up with a f.LK into HP dive or even just a standing MP for the gap …
LP into MP is such a good frametrap …its unfortunate that followups after st.MP are quite tough … but i do tend to go for another LP,f.LK, HP slide if i feel the gap is right and sometimes it works n sometimes it doesnt lol

i noticed ive been relying on rocket on wakeup quite a bit … mainly EX… and that has both saved me from some safe jump options and also messed me up quite a few times as its easy to bait out :frowning: … i think i need to be more careful with my reads … :confused: …another thing about rocket is that when oiled i had a habit of doing it after 3 cr.LKs … now im mixing it up a little more … doing it after other normals or just after 1 hit … just to make it a little more surprizing … ofcouse i’ve been mashed out with scrub shoryus quite a few times but thats all part of the gamble

anti airing and air control is alot more managable now … i feel like im getting a better grasp at it … but still can be improved upon … i still get punished by wrong AA choice sometimes …

i also notice im DNCing more … mainly backdash into CC …that thing is really too good … i fricken love it!!! i might make a compilation vid on the amout of times that saved me … lol … im still not doing FADNC for parrying or extending combos … i dont think i’ve reached that level of familiarity yet … like its still not in my muscle memory … (im a very slow learner lol)

now about matchups …
GUY: wtf do i do ? ive been playing two of probably the top guy players in europe and xbl … nebbiez and afo … i think this matchup is just hard when the guy player knows what hes doing … the rushdown is too much … its soo tricky and the amount of times he shifts from ground to air in a second are just beyond confusing … mind you i dont have trouble with other guy players mainly those two … but they’re like the best two … so clearly they’re playing the character right as opposed to the rest … i would love to hear your inputs on this because im finding it so tough (drew you’re in the region … lol if you play those guys … help :frowning: )

lame jumpbackers with fireballs: how do you guys deal with lameness? especially when the opponent has a health lead and they’re so shit that the next move is unpredictable ?? then they do nothing but zone you out by jumping away till the fucking timer runs out … honestly … this is the most irritating thing to face with hakan … i can fight from a distance with juri and sim … at 3/4 of the screen i am still in control … with hakan the gap needs to be 1/4 to roughly less than 1/2 for him to be a threat … this by far is the hardest thing im having trouble adapting to …

BALROG: i dont find this matchup particularly hard but … balrog hurts man… when you have the momentum hes pretty screwed … but if he gets you in the corner … oh boy … its tough … especially a good balrog … and i dont know why … .whenever i see his rapid jabs … (no matter which character i use ) … in my head im like is this bastard using turbo??? lol … thats so annoying … any advice on balrogs corner pressure apart from … dont end up in the corner ? lol… otherwise i think i’m doing ok vs rogs

BISON: bison is a bastard … he has to have one of the dumbest hitboxes in the game really … many normals just dont seem to fricken hit him … and i think his walk speed is bullshit … hes beatable but hes just annoying to fight with hakan …(or with any1 for that matter lol ) you need to have a good eye for that crossup j.LK of his … but once you’re familiar with that its not so bad …

VEGA: i do struggle a bit with him … but i usually lose because i kill my self lol …i know what i do wrong in that matchup… i just get really irritated by vega … but yeah i think the matchup is more winnable than i previously thought … hes pretty punishable … still not a walk in the park though …

…
one last thing i was hoping you guys could help me with is his coward crouch … i notice in many of the hakan vids i see he gets out of it quite quickly … i feel like my hakan takes forever to recover from it … is there anything you do to make the CC effect slightly shorter ? or am i doing it right and its just generally slow ? i dunno … anyone know what im talking about? i mean i do go for backdash, or press a button or even jump … still seems to be slower than normal … or is that the acctual timing ? lol … its sucks that hes slightly vulnerable after as well :frowning:

anyway … i havent given up on hakan yet … i still think hes great fun… and in certain matchups (or players) even viable as a counter pick :stuck_out_tongue: … will update more on my progress as the days go by :slight_smile:

58

There are a couple of things that I can think of:

  1. it seems longer when you are playing because you’re in the moment. Thirty frames of vulnerability doesn’t seem like a big deal when you’re watching one of Drew’s videos, but when you’re in a match and you could be swept at any time, thirty frames feels more like thirty seconds.
  2. the recovery begins when you let go of :d:. His hitbox is still technically low for part of the recovery. Learn to time it so that you are already in the process of recovering when you are evading the attack.

That’s all I’ve got.

59

That Matchup is really tough man, Guy pressure can be infinite but it is not safe. I fight against a lot of good Guy`s and one of my best friends is one of them. Firstable you got to know what kind of pressure the Guy player use more often:
If he use elbow drop pressure you got to choose Ultra 2 to scary him, but there are other ways to stop that:
1-You can time your Oil Slides to beat the Elbow Drop or escape the pressure or corner, if you dominate that you wont have problems with that anymore.
2-You can use Stand HP as anti air but that recquire a lot of precision cause Guy can cancel his flip in elbow drop.
3-You can Duck under with Forward MP or Forward Dash and SPD him, but that one is really hard to do.
4-Only defend is a good choice too.^^
5- Using FADNC is nice but he can grab you with the flip so dont use that many times.
And there is a tip against this kind of pressure: Do NOT stay Stand if he is close to you in the flip move cause he can grab you so stay crouched.

There is the Run Stop pressure, that is the kind offensive that good Guy players use cause they can frame trap you with Crouch HP,MP and Stand MP and they can overhead or Slide FADC.
The best way to stop that is wait the Run Stop and immediately punish him with Crouch LP into LP Oil Slide. Yes you can Punish that shit.^^
And you can stop his overhead move with Crouch jab too. ^^

Footsies: With oil Guy cant handle you , cause you can use FADNC in his best footsies pokes. Unoiled Guy can use his normal Slide and that is a terrific poke if used correctly but you can beat that with Stand HP, but pay attention cause Guy got other nice tools such as his Stand MK and MP.

Guy Wakeup: You can safe jump him after a Oil Slide walk a little bit back and Jump forward with HK.
DDT setups are nice too just dont abuse cause Guy got a nice backdash so they usually use.
Safe Slide are good too, cause after they defend you can baited him or go for SPD or if you fell confident use Ultra 2 cause will catch his backdash , Jumps and his best Reversals.
Use meaty moves are always a good option and I assume you are pretty good on those.
Mix up all that and they are in trouble.

Your Wakeup: Take care with his frame traps cause they are dangerous. BackDash is a nice option even if you you are unoiled. Pay attention with Forward Jump Medium Kick Crossup this can be really dangerous when they mixed up with Elbow Drop but Ultra 2 can handle that. Back-DNC is always good.^^

Other tips: You can punish Guy overheads and normal slide with Oiled SPD. Normal Slide made in max Range is almost unpunishble, my friend dominate that ~~
Pay attention in what the Guy player do after a defended Hozanto to counter his next move.
Guy does have some kind of DDT Setup , but there are few setups. Be aware.
Guy can jump in the wall so Ultra2 can be baited in the corner, pay attention.

I hope this help you, and sorry about my grammar mistakes I bet they were many.
Later, you got tell me if those information help your results.^^

60

thanks alot for this :slight_smile: …
I did find out a few things you mentioned by chance (because i am stubborn and i had to play him like 20 times in a row just to understand what to do LOL ) …

I did realize a few things … as long as you keep a half screen distance … hakan can manage …
once hakan is in the corner … its really tough … and ultra 2 is almost useless because of GUY’s wall jump like you said …
its kind of like c.viper … where you need to keep the pressure from mid distance but not too close because that is her strong zone … i think its the same for guy …

i will deffinately put the stuff you mentioned to the test… and ill let you know how i progress next time :slight_smile:

thanks again :smiley: