CitizenCIA: It’s funny that you say, “I remember looking at my ranked win record there and seeing like 20% and being so discouraged.” I think that I would be lucky if I even had 20% with Chun, and I’ve been playing her since Vanilla (admittedly, not seriously until recently, but still…). This is one of the reasons that I want to change; my win/loss ratio is very low as of now. I might as well enjoy the character that I’m using if it’s going to be low either way.
I have a conflict in my head about where I want to go with Street Fighter. Do I want to win Evo someday? Sure. Do I want to dick around and have fun? Absolutely! But the question is, what is my goal? I recently decided that my goal is to have fun, in whatever capacity that may be. It would be fun to win Evo, to be perfectly honest. But I feel as though I can have a lot of fun just going to Evo and going 0-2 to be part of the community, make friends, etc. So it is with this mindset that I decided that it doesn’t really matter that I’ve spent all of my time up until now with Chun. I hereby declare to play Hakan for the foreseeable future, with no dithering back to my old main as a security net. I’m doing it for real this time. Expect me to be a fixture around these forums, folks.
ok so … i got up to c+ today lol
and as expected … PP went down to 2000 … fluctuating between 2000-2300 …
but i see my mistakes and i see the comebacks that i missed so its only a matter of getting them down consistently …
i honestly have no idea what to do against a lame ryu … i can deal with any other lame character … even ken … just … ryu being lame … frustrates the hell out of me with hakan … lol …
gonna start writing my character specific flow chart discoveries as i go along from now on … i feel like im figuring out alot of punishes and its a shame if i forget them …
sometimes it’s the muscle memory that needs to be trained. On the theory side we could figure out what can stuff what in terms of frame calculation but to actually react to something spontaneously is hard isn’t it?
I like to press c.LP+LK just to tech throw so as a result sometimes I eat a wake up DP or tatsu / ex tatsu I force myself not to press it sometimes and end up eating throw… does anyone know how to train this / turn this auto tech mode off lol it’s annoying sometimes
newager, for your tech/get hit scenarios, it just means you need to move on to the next stage —> “late-tech”.
this is one of the hardest to master imo, but you need it to better the situations you’ve mentioned.
btw have you sort out your connection issues?
This. I had this problem so much. You’ll notice under my avatar that I claim to be terrible at tech-ing throws. Some of the best advice that I’ve ever gotten in my entire life about SF came from a friend of mine named Gridman (who you may have seen pulling in #5 at NEC). It’s actually on video at 4:08: [media=youtube]2ZfkEV1iDg0[/media]
“Don’t tech throws until someone makes you tech throws. How’s that?”
I was floored. I used to get blown up by Codys all day because of frame traps baiting out my cr.tech. This advice really helped, because, well, what if your opponent is never going to throw you? Then you’re just pushing buttons to open yourself up. Some other good advice that I got a Season’s Beatings was to prefer eating the throw; I’ll use the Cody example again. His throw does 130 damage. 130. That’s pretty insignificant when you have ~1000 health (give or take depending on your character). Okay, so I ate a throw. 130 health gone. Now, what if I try to tech? Well, yes, some of the time I’ll tech the throw. Other times, I’ll get frame trapped and eat a combo for…I dunno, probably 200+ damage. That’s looking a bit more substantial. Now, obviously, it’s best to just learn how to tech correctly (god knows that’s been my mission for the longest time…), but this strategy works for me for the time being while I try to learn blockstring tick throw setups.
ok so …
finally getting into the groove of things …
after watching the replays of my previous ranked session … i went and sat down to see my replays to check on what areas i needed improving …
and i noticed a few flaws …
if you have the health lead and the opponent is on full meter and ultra and time is running out … DONT DO NOTHING STUPID JUST CUZ YOU WANNA TRY A DAMN SETUP ! lol … the number of times i lost like that >__>
anti-airing needed improvement … so i implemented more st.HP and f.LP … and i got better at whiff air attacks by f.MP, cr.HP and f.HK with oil found it really useful against blanka for positioning his next jump or stupid slide… still havent gotten around to using anti air LK dive …
i realized i needed to improve on the links … alot of times i would have the opponent in hit stun after a jump in … and i would follow up with cr.MP instead of cr.MK…a juri habit that needs to go away … so … that has to go …to get more damage as cr.MK is cancelable and cr.MP isnt … also … hakan is my first experience with a non cancelable into itself st.LP … so … i need to get the timing down more consistently ( i got it … down but basicly i need to apply it more)
noticed some missed punish opportunities here n there … and took down notes …
and finally, stop obsessing over the damn setups!!! sometimes taking a step back to the defensive is better … get the defense down then work on the offense …
so after that … i went to raked match extravaganza part 2!!! i managed to boost the PP to 2900 lol ! so i think i got something going right (particularly the anti airs… and generally being more careful)
then a guile came along … >____>
and i was stubborn trying to beat him … i lost to him something like 9-10 matches and then he picked deejay and i raped him n he never came back …
PP back down to 2500 … still … progress … lol
man HOW THE HELL DO YOU FIGHT GUILE !!!
it says in the forum its even … i just dont see it … his recovery is too damn fast… im finding it so hard to get in … and oil … and when hes in boom into normal pressure rape hurts … and his air throw has priority over hakans … i would really appreciate the advice on this matchup … as im finding it the hardest so far …
i probably need to get more safe jumps down to keep the pressure… ( i guess thats my next mission …)
still a good run … i swear im loving hakan so much !!! gonna visit family for x-mas so i wont be online …( but ill be in the hakan training camp working on a few things here n there … so hopefully my next ranked adventure would be after new years … lol )
Kindda been alright now these days but who knows :S it might plummet into the abyss yet again. I been playing lately but I have been rusty so I suffer a big point drop, not that I care, but just a measurement that I actually am rusty cause I can feel that I actually lost the touch and feel of what to do during what timing.
DOH! Me too after I came back from several months of really really abysmal internet connection I get kicked so hard by normal turtling guile. I used to be able to get in or aggravate him easily. Then after I got beaten all of my old tricks came back to me! DOH! LOL
some good guile actually figured out if you do whiff mp and j hk crossies they’ll just crouch and grab you as you land. or they late time the flash kicks so it kicks the other way around it happened to me before and the cross ups just arent very threatening anymore for him.
anyway I used to wait for his slow LP sonic boom. I trained myself to use the mp slide so the timing, you need to get it right before it will go under it without having to play around with EX slide at all. The lp slide timing I can never master I just keep on getting hit by those drat boom booms! XD
I used to keep on CCing every single booms too so he got bored and decided to come in. or play around with backdash back and forth. My other trick is the braked / clutched EX oil slide thats when you put the EX slide and the oil up command right after the qcf + p it’ll take you short distance just to mess up with his timing of boom-booms.
Online. there’s two different types of guiles… 1) Down-back Turtling guile and 2) Rush down guile. Offline, you just have to deal with the former more then the latter. Im still learning myself but;
Patience is the key. The first round, you should be trying to figure out what type of Guile your facing and if he knows the Hakan Matchup. He throws a sonic boom after FIGHT! or immediately down-back, he doesnt know the MU. If hes jumping back after FIGHT! he knows the MU. First think I do to test this is LK oil after FIGHT! You get hit with a boom okay buy you added more seconds on to the OT (oil timer). How ever back away from him and build meter. FA, CC or even Safe jump his SBs till you see an opening. Much like how 99% of the community thinks, “He’s using Hakan, he’s gonna slide” you can think the same way, “hes a guile player, so he’s gonna chuck an ex boom” just wait and counter with EX slide. Once your in, stay in on him much like Dhalsim. he’s wake ups are not great, you can bait an FK, EX FK, U1 or even U2. however you have to be more patient then Guile players.
Spacing, Spacing, Spacing. Once you learn the spacing against Guile, you’re golden. You have to learn the proper spacing so that you can punish guile for throwing booms, bait a flash kick & to get Guile in the mixups. Did you know that Standing Medium punch can hit Guile out of his Croucing Roundhouse, even after the first hit? Also Do not, I repeat, DO NOT attempt to oil dive Spin guile up close after you wake up. His UDK (upside down Kick) hits behind hakan when you trigger his super, thus knocking him out of it. Also if you wait after the animation, Guile can just duck in time. you also need to know the proper spacing to bait AND punish Sonic Hurricane.
parry the BullS&$#(! Dont let Guile have his way with you. Just avoid his booms and wait till he comes to you. once hes close, he wants to either throw you or start his TC bull crap. Just parry those and punish him.
other little things.
you really dont have to jump AT Guile. If you do Safe jump it so you can get out of his SB / Air grab zone.
this forum is becomeing more and more like my dear diary for my hakan adventure … lol … but its good cuz i really appreciate the feedback from you guys i am learning so much …
so im climing up the B ranks now … almost at 6000 bp … and my PP is stabilizing more between the 2500-2800 ranks … still not to a satisfactory level for me …
so after another session and reviewing my replays … i realized that i am struggling in certain areas:
its really tough to gain or re-gain momentum against rushdown heavy characters … especially with all the frametraps and random neutral jumps … namely: cammy , sakura … and rushdown cody players … no to mention its hard to keep your oil …
characters that lame it out … can be a major pain … particularly rose … rose … is annoying … its like playing cat and mouse … it just plays on my patience more than anything … the matchup hard in my opinion just frustrating … especially with her safe spiral pressure and extremely annoying frame traps … shes good both far and up close …
then theres the whole issue with hakans anti airs … i hate to say this … but ive come to the conclusion that sometimes is just better to block … his anti airs trade too much and they just arent as efficient as the rest of the cast and i consider this a huge weakness … st.HP is great, but tends to whiff on empty jumps which can really cost alot … f.LP is good but not that damaging and also trades … and sometimes its just not practical to use whiffing normals like f.HK, f.MP or cr.HP … i still havent gotten around to using f.MP for far anti airs … doesnt feel natural to me yet …
excecutional hickups … it is extremely frustrating when they happen, i have never had that issue with any other character before … probably cuz ive never used a character with a 360 motion before … most annoying hickup im getting is … when i nj.HP, into cr.MK and then i wanna do an HP slide …i noticed that i had the habit of holding up when doing the jump and that for some insane reason along with the down from the cr.MK and the qcf motion would register into a stupid rocket !! which obviously wouldnt connect because of the hitstun … while dabbing around in training mode if found that the best solution was to just tap the jump to cancel out the input … and then i would be fine … but its extremely annoying to re-adjust … but ill get there eventually … another annoying thing is his damn ultra 2 !! i could swear i tapped down x3 and KKK and nothing comes out … i look back at the replay i realize that one of them was a db or a df … >> … and that is just fucked up … what idiot came up with that stupid input anyway? whatever happened to fireball motions!! … then theres one thats really a momentum fucker … which is after a slide-press or a dive … or a rocket … sometimes i want to to a dive after an empty jump … and i slightly miss the timing and nothing somes out … frustration over 9000 !!! >__> … these are all obviously faults of my own … but still im just noting my findings …
so ive come to the conclusion that …
i am not doing enough FADNC parries … and that would really help controlling the pressure …
i am not utilizing his strings … st.LP, st.LP … etc… and those can be great hit confirms … so i need to work more on that … i rely too much on the mind game of counter pokes …
i need to stop relying too much on the rocket reversal … and think twice about it … been baited out of it quite a few times with random neutral jumps … its not nice …
anti-airing got better … still needs improving …
i need to improve my excecution
and that concludes this update …
need to work harder … i swear as much as im enjoying hakan … sometimes … he just pisses me off …
I know I’m a (an?) Hakan newbie as well, but I can sympathize with rocket coming out when I want slide. It’s an executional hiccup, like you said, and me telling you that it happens to me as well doesn’t really help you (whoa, pronouns everywhere), but I was hoping you could at least find solace in the fact that you’re not alone.
Going to my first offline meetup on Friday with Hakan. I’ll have lots of videos that I’ll want critiqued ;D
Everything you just said, describes me to a tee. Ive been playing Hakan since day one and I don’t feel like I’ve improved at all, till just recently. What helped is KoFXIII. After playing SSFIV and UMvC3 for a while now, my execution has suffered. After playing KoFXIII, its came back and the fundamentals carried over. Now I just got to work on 1 – 4. And to do that, I gonna just sit down and play arcade all day and training mode. I always say I’m gonna take 30 days and train, yadda yadda. Im just gonna have to sit down and really freaking do it. I feel so inconsistent with Hakan while online, offline not so much and Im tired of that feeling.
honestly …
just like with any character its a matter of patience till everything that needs to be done becomes muscle memory and you can auto pilot …
i havent reached that stage … but … hopefully i will … im planning on testing hakan in a major tourney in a week … see how he flows… err… slides … lol
i think ill keep sim and juri as backups … but i want hakan to be my front man …
im gonna try and focus on the things i mentioned … and see if my win/loose ratio would improve …
so im gonna need some intense hakan training this week … fuck ups are unacceptable !!
Good luck man. Seen some of your fights on the replay channel. Your getting better each time Yeah the frustration is going to come out a lot when your playing Hakan. BUt as long as you realise what your doing wrong then you will totally over come them. There is a reason why Hakan is considered low Tier by the masses. It’s not easy to win with him agaisnt really good players until you pretty much mastered him. And it’s great that you have all these options/set ups and new tools to work with coming into Hakan new. Some of us had to work even extra hard when we mained Hakan from the get go. It was compleatly all an up hill battle. Like in SSF4 Hakan didn’t even have that lp, lp,lp,fr lk combo. I think he’s only Combos came from he’s jump slide combo.
So you are doing really well with Hakan. And you will get better, just all the pains that your going through have been experienced by every Hakan player that mains him. Stick to your guns and hard work, and it will even be more fun using the oily guy when he just flows through you
Good luck again. Work on he’s combos, and always, always find ways to oil up.
How your DryKan by the way? can you hold your own while unoiled?
im acctually ok with Drykan LOL! (love the term) … it doesnt bother me at all that the oil is gone most of the time … i can still keep my flow to an extent … i think i have the oil management under control … balancing between hurting the opponent and and pressuring vs. oiling up for later …
the most annoying part is … dealing with oil loss mid flow … like setting up some one for an (oily) rocket only to realize that you dried up last second … its rarely happens to me… but in those rare situations when it does … god its annoying …
plus if you noticed in my replays … i dont mind being dry for the sake of laming out the opponent … blame it on my dhalsim days … some habits just dont go away … lol
oh and for the record … my PP is now 3000 LOL … I didnt mention it before because i dont think it stabilized yet … it might drop again … but yes i am understanding hakan better the more i use him … and loving his gimmicks … people dont like hakan because hes all gimmicks … same thing with juri … fuzzy guard shinanigens, making moves safe etc… its the same type of logic in a way … in other words … people dont like to think too much … they like a straight forward character that solves all options … take ryus shoryuken for example:
its anti throw
invincible start up
he can make it extremely safe by FADC
he can combo it into what ever
and land it from almost any hit confirm …
it has great damage
it is extremely fast (3 frames)
it is anti safe jump (not in the hakan sense in the rest of the cast sense … )
EX is ALSO anti projectile and all the other properties remain
so as a ryu player … i dont see any reason why i would not just throw it out … and you know what ? it works ! because they dont want to think … with hakan on the other hand … theres a risk/reward situation … almost every move is a gamble … and you really have to understand the opponent … its a totally different mind set … i tend to go for characters that require alot of work … they just appeal to me more … i came to realize that the aim of hakan is to limit the opponents options and almost force them to do what you want … i like that type of character … and its nice to be in the opponents face and frustrate them for a change (as opposed to juri and dhalsim where theres always a 1/4 - 1/2 safe gap …
hakans wakeup is also quite poor … but so was juri and dhalsim … so i have some experience with dealing with someone knocking me down …
i mentioned this before …the biggest challenge for me is that hakan is the first character i ever use without a fireball … its a totally different experience … and in a way … this is indirectly helping me out with juri and dhalsim … ( i noticed that my mid game choices with them have changed slightly…)
i dont know how far i will go with the red lobster … but so far i am enjoying the ride … only time will tell
… i would really appreciate the advice on this matchup … as im finding it the hardest so far …
Yeah the frustration is going to come out a lot when your playing Hakan. BUt as long as you realise what your doing wrong then you will totally over come them. There is a reason why Hakan is considered low Tier by the masses. It’s not easy to win with him agaisnt really good players until you pretty much mastered him. And it’s great that you have all these options/set ups and new tools to work with coming into Hakan new. Some of us had to work even extra hard when we mained Hakan from the get go. It was compleatly all an up hill battle. Like in SSF4 Hakan didn’t even have that lp, lp,lp,fr lk combo. I think he’s only Combos came from he’s jump slide combo.