I’m a tekken player tryin to get involved in ST. I can play an intermediate level match, but some shit I just cant escape. things like guiles mid level sonic boom into walk up throw, or giefs jump-in splash to anythrow that cant be stopped. it’s just crazy. how do you stop it. esp in the corner, where you arent pushed back? in tekken a simple d+2 is good enough to stop ticks. in this game it dont work though. it’s like your frozen in block. I cant throw back either, the most I can do is tech a throw, which still chips at my health considerably. and fighting guile,vega(claw), or anyone with a command throw, I really cant do anything. what can I do?
in SF most of the time they will tech a throw off of a light attack. You can take the hit, recover and counter throw them. Simple
not getting too specific, here it is:
If they are within your throw range, just throw them instead (yes YOU get the throw if you time it well, not them)
If they are out of your throw range(with character that has a wider throw range than yours) or if they’re doing a command throw, do any reversal that goes off the ground instantly/has invincibility.
i think what the previous posters fail to include is yes, it is very difficult to reverse throws. sometimes teching is your best answer, its very simple to do. If you arent happy with a tech well learn to reverse, but the amount of damage taken when teching is significantly less than a full throw.
Is teching even possible in older games like say HF?
In ST most tick throws are actually quite easy reverse and escape, the hard part is knowing when there coming. Most players will mask thier intentions when going for ticks, so they aren’t always obvious. Things like ticks into command grabs are extremely difficult to reverse, and your best chance of getting out of it, is by not letting yourself get caught in it.
Lol, techs in HF, that was quite funny. Good one.
PLEASE DISREGARD THE ABOVE POST.
Taking the hit is a horrible, horrible idea. It doesn’t give you any sort of advantage, and you are taking unnecessary damage.
Think of what your opponent can do to you if he knows you’re going to take the hit. It won’t be a simple cr.Short…
Against Guile’s walk up and throw, you are probably trying to counterthrow too early. Guile has very poor throw range. Similar to Claw, most of the time when he does a walk-up throw what actually happens is he starts to walk up, you try to throw but are out of range and get a normal attack, then he continues to walk forward and gets the throw before the normal attack can come out. A lot of the time you can even see your limb start to come out.
Guile walk up and throw behind sonic boom shouldn’t be a big issue. Zangief is another story. Learn to reverse special and don’t get stuck in that position.
(I’m repeating a lot of what was said in the Wiki post linked to above, I jsut realized, so I apologize for that…)
Honestly speaking, if your character has one, just get good at doing your best Reversal move with proper Reversal timing. Trying to Throw their Tick Throw attempt is not consistent enough. You either hit it first or he did, it’s far more random.
BUT if you get good at your Reversal timing, you can guarantee that you will win. If you can perform a Reversal DP or Cannon Spike or Razor Kick or SPD or Ooicho Throw, whatever, you can guarantee they cannot throw you at any point. You will win everytime if both players have perfect timing.
This, in turn, sets up the tick throw game, in essence. Players who know you Reversal everytime will start to block or fake a throw to get you to whiff your move so they can punish you, etc. But that’s a good thing because, if you successfully pull off the Reversal enough times, you put the fear in the opponent that, yes, you can get your Reversals and, yes, their throws will be stopped. So they can second guess themselves, or fail to go for a Throw in situations where you actually weren’t ready for it and could have been thrown.
Basically, the whole goal of this is to just make it so the opponent doesn’t feel as confident in their Tick Throws as before. Putting that fear in them once or twice will cause them to think twice about going for it, which prevents you from getting tick thrown to death. If you never Reversal, why shouldn’t they throw you to death?
There are some situations where, obviously, the Thrower won’t care. Dhalsim, for example, against Guile would love to Tick Throw him to death. If Dhalsim lands a Noogie, Guile’s gotta shake out to avoid excessive damage (and Guile can’t soften the Throw). Doing so prevents Guile from charging for his Razor Kick. So it’s actually fairly optimal for Dhalsim to go for another Tick Throw because Guile has a shorter Throw range and no longer has a Reversal at his disposal. In these situations, if Dhalsim plays the match right, there is VERY little you can do to escape. But for Dhalsim to perform his Tick throw perfect 100% of the time is impossible.
So, in these situations, the best you can try for is one of two things: a) Take the damage from the first Noogie, charge for the Razor Kick, and go for the Reversal or Reversal fake (use the obvious fact that are charging for the Razor Kick to start the mind games). b) Just try to Counter Throw. Option B may be your only option most of the time. Again, Dhalsim players can’t measure the throw distances by the pixels, so oftentimes they will be too close to you and you just might be able to throw him first.
Against Zangiefs and Hondas and T.Hawks, though, Reversals are pretty much your only bet. Most of the time, they will set it up so you are nowhere near them so you can’t throw them, but they can throw you.
Tick Throws are good, I won’t lie. Oftentimes, you can find yourself killed by Tick Throws alone. But that’s part of this game and, at high level play, doesn’t affect the game as much as you’d think.
Technical question: is it really that much worse for Guile to shake out by going from down/back to down/forward?
im surprised to hear you say that nki, you do know the stun is different from hit and block. less frames when you get hit, usually though i use this technique on people who jump at me and hit high trying to hit my air counter, guiles ducking fierce vs say bison. but as for ticks, i have actually taken the hit vs some chars to get the reversal out. Its not something you should abuse but occasionally do it to throw off your opponents timing.
as for guile doing db to df to shake outta noogie, doesnt work, you have to hit opposite directions i think to make the shakeout function.
Argh, I wish the Wiki were up so I could just link to the article I already wrote…but anyway…
There are times (like you described) when getting hit is OK because you are using option select. Using your example of Guile’s cr.Fierce: if the opponent doesn’t attack, your cr.Fierce hits him. If he does attack, you will get hit, but you still get to punish him as he lands. A viable strategy.
But I’m talking about just blatantly taking a hit for no reason other than because you think it gives you some kind of magical advantage when it comes to reversing throws. If your opponent does [cr.Short, throw], there is no difference between blocking the cr.Short and getting hit by the cr.Short, aside from taking damage. You’re in the same position either way: you have one frame to reverse, and if you miss that frame, it just comes down to who times it better.
The fellow above was saying that if you just get hit (rather than block), reversing is easier, but that’s totally false, and really bad advice.
P.S.: Block stun and hit stun are the same length for all ground attacks (normals and specials).
EDIT: Looks like the Wiki is back up…
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Advanced_Strategy
I’m finding it’s pretty easy to use a charge character and use a special to reverse. and wow I’m shocked this thread got so many responses. the ST community is good in my book 
will if it is a jumping light attack yes it DOES work. Unless the jump attack connects real late. Cause with jumping light attacks ur stuck in that animation until u land. So if it hits early ur opponent is screwed.
P.S. dont need to be an ass NKI. That counter is the most basic they get really lol.
If it makes contact early at all (BLOCKED OR HIT), the opponent is screwed, so there’s no reason to take the hit.
You can do a reversal throw from block stun, just like you can from hit stun. So just block it.
Sorry if I come off as an ass, but that “counter” is horrible advice, and I really don’t like people being misinformed.
Actually, I think there is a little merit to taking the hit as opposed to blocking it: taking the hit leaves you closer to the enemy than blocking an attack, if I’m not mistaken. The recoil from blocking a Jump Attack is a lot longer than the almost insignificant distance pushed by getting hit by a Jump attack, right? I’d have to go home and test it to see if I’m right. Might just be my imagination.
true dat true dat. I forgot about that. But one main key is figuring out what people like to tick with. As a Vega user I use jumping LK. So learn to exploit it.
cam347: You originally didn’t specify the incoming tick is coming from the air. I thought you meant something like a low short.
If your grounded and try to reverse throw after getting hit with a tick, that’s a big gamble and totally not worth the risk imo.
James: I tested it out, and hit stun has the same pushback as block stun for Jab/Short. Perhaps you’re thinking of blocked Strong/Forward/Fierce/RH. All jumping attacks have 11 frames of hit stun (which is the Jab’s length). However, for blocked jumping moves, Jab/Short has 11, Strong/Forward 16, and Fierce/RH has 20. So a j.Fierce has 20 frames of block stun, but 11 frames of hit stun. However, in both cases (hit stun and block stun), you can reverse, so I would never take the hit.
cam347: You are taking damage for no reason, and you are risking losing the round if the opponent predicts you taking the hit. And you don’t even get anything in return. You are taking a risk with no potential reward.