To be honest it looked pretty lucky. (LOOKED. I could be wrong. Pestazoids fuerte is solid.) The fuerte went for a standard splash, and the Sagat timed his uppercut slightly too early to tag the splash on the way down.
If you try to time it, i would say 99% of the time, youre going to eat the uppercut during your run. And if you used it on other things it would be less reliable anyway. It worked on Sagats uppercut, because the invincibility frames negated the active frames of the uppercut, meaning that when the splash became active, it was BEHIND the uppercuts hitbox, and connected with Sagat where he was vulnerable.
Lets say for example, you tried to use it against a blanka ultra on startup, while blanka was in the air. You could negate a few of blankas active frames, but when you lost invincibility, and the splash became active, at best you would whiff completely, but for the most part, you would probably land square on top of him, and take a hit from the ultra. (Only one though, since you would be behind him, and get launched.)
When i said it was lucky at the beginning, i didnt mean it was a one-off. Splash works well like this A LOT anyway. This was just an instance where it was particularly noticable. (And that blanka ultra example is a fucking ugly wall of text. And probably doesnt make much sense. Feel free to ignore it.)
The Gouken one is pretty off. That’s the easiest match for fuerte in the entire game. He has virtually no answer on his wakeup vs. safe tortilla with an option select guac.
From the OP, as a Gouken player this is so totally misguided it’s funny. I have no idea what the fuck kind of Elf came up with this, or what kind of Gouken he was playing.
If the Gouken knows anything about his char, he absolutely will not throw out a hurricane kick outside of an EX wakeup response or after a connected EX palmrush. And both of those are not the best options because of how blaringly vulnerable we are if we miss. EX tatsu on Elf is especially retarded given that not only is he a small char, meaning he can just duck and let it soar overhead, but also Elf’s extremely screwed hitbox otherwise makes it an even worse idea since it causes EX tatsu to only partially hit after EX palmrush.
Similarly, our parry is the last thing we’re thinking about using on wakeup since it covers one of what, 3 options? Yeah. You know what beats the parry? Anything that doesn’t involve sticking shit into the parry. We may as well focus backdash, but Gouken’s backdash sucks. And it’s still a guessing game either way.
A million options my ass. We have extraordinarily few options against every other char while having the shittiest possible wakeup responses; i don’t know what “million options” we’re supposed to have against a char that’s nearly 100% wakeup guessing game, and he sure as hell didn’t mention any of them. We flip a coin and hope we guess right to get out of wakeup pressure. At the same time, all of Gouken’s options for stopping Elf from being annoying otherwise are extremely unsafe and go against everything sane. Everything else is just a matter of HP. It’s an annoying, frustrating, tedious, and boring match that is absolutely pointless, and the only reliable option for dealing with El Fuerte as Gouken is disconnecting.
Agreed. The whole game of SF is mainly based on the ability of a player to read the other opponent and making educated guesses based on the opponent’s patterns (and the other part is execution). Baiting the other player to commit mistakes is the bread and butter of El Fuerte, but other characters also need to do so to win at high level. Even if Gouken is an easy match for Fuerte relatively speaking, it is not even close to some of the more unbalanced matchups in the game, so complaining about it in the way Jagger did is very immature imo. If you complain, it has to be for the purpose of learning the matchup, not mentioning phrases like “and the only reliable option for dealing with El Fuerte as Gouken is disconnecting”.
It’s a bit of an exaggeration, I said and meant that gouken is probably the easiest match for fuerte in the entire game, but it’s still like 5.5-4.5…fuerte doesnt have blowout victory matchups. He has alot of characters that he goes 5-5 with imo and quite a few that he goes 4-6 with, and 3 or 4 that are 3-7 and damn near 2-8. If you are seriously getting that frustrated by el fuerte, it means that you are easy to read. It’s as simple as that. Anyone who is good at pattern recognition with a good eye can beat el fuerte even with gouken.
If you really wanna beat someone who you know only plays fuerte just get akuma and turbo the roundhouse button. You don’t even have to look at the screen.
With fuerte I feel that only a few EASY matchup’s are around. Gouken being one. In my opinion to play fuerte one must " be great the entire match to score a win. " there is no easy in fuerte. No lol trade dp’s to ultra.
Gouken match up:
In this match I love to use old school 3rd strike parry baiting tactics on gouken alllllllll dayyyyyy and the new players to the FGC get dominated by them when playing gouken. "Empty jumps, whiffed jabs, meaty cr.mk’s etc. etc. " Playing gouken is a treat for me when I play online and offline. I’m just not afraid at all. Using my invulnerable frames on splash to land knockdowns. He has 0 options on wake up that are threatening. Just don’t be a fool.
Seth matchup:
Against seth I play highly aggressive. Seth players who know how to control the pace of the match are just MEAN. If the seth is playing keep away, I play the match like a sim match up. Focus streches dash forward or f.mk to close the gap. If the Seth player is being aggressive. God forbid you forget how to block. After 2 combos your more than likely to get stunned. f.mk seems to beat out his suctions pretty well. He can try to bait you with Sonic booms into ultra if you jump like normal. For seth its all about getting the knockdown and playing crossup games IMO. Allot of new fuertes I see just mash out ex guac to get the escape but this can be punished accordingly if timed correctly for another 21 to 25 hit combo depending on spacing and where at your on the stage.
I’m gonna say it now inlay of future flames. This is just what I do in these situations not what you should do. I have no say in that matter
EDIT: I’m at work but the other night I had a sakura do a blind wake up ultra and I did s.rh. The 2nd hit of the attack beat out her ultra. If anyone can check while I’m stuck here that would be awesome.
Can someone tell me what to do/not do in Dic vs Elf match up? The stuff in the OP is helpful but pretty obvious. How should Dic punish a blocked bodysplash? An expected tortilla?
Easy punish for a splash is the low slide HK, or scissor kick.
If Fuerte tries a random Tortilla, you can jump forward with practically any attack and beat it. If it’s safe Tortilla on wakeup, EX Devil Reverse will turn things in your favour, but it’s not a confirmed punish.
Really as Bison just rush Fuerte down for the most part. It’s an awful match-up for us once we are trying to get out of that mess of scissor kicks and such.
So, i just gotta ask this. Does NO ONE know how to fight against fuerte? I decided to pick him for fun and ive been winning approximately 70% of my matches. That being said i win usually about 50-60% usually using my other mains. It seems everyone just goes nuts and panics and screws up. ESPECIALLY with his U2 doing so much damage and being such a great ultra. Im actually considering making him a secondary or third choice of serious characters! I do realize hat offline competition will be MUCH better at fending off my scrubby fuerte but hes so much fun to play.
