It is really peculiar how cryptic most of the tutorials (and by extension the trials) are in 2D games. RSFx3 in SF4 for example, or ones where you have to chain a few jabs then link the last one and cancel. It’s not like they explain the difference to anyone at any point or even break it down, they just kind of expect you to figure it out. There’s a lot of crap in the KOFXIII trials as well like drive cancelling using peculiar shortcuts to navigate around supers, hit anywheres, etc that I assume would just be a nightmare for the average joe to figure out.
We don’t really have to make execution easier, just make the steps of progress more defined. I was actually impressed by HDR’s quick 12 page tutorial or whatever as it at least discussed things like crossups and other elementary stuff that most of us just take for granted. What’s even more strange is how homogenised a tutorial could be that would branch across a significant amount of 2D games due to shared mechanics.
Part of me wants to say that FGs don’t need to change much and instead just refine what they already have. Do we really want players level-grinding in order to unlock their full toolset like in every FPS released nowadays? Do we want FGs to adapt a f2p (but pay 2 win) model like LoL and many MMOs? I mean, KOFXIII didn’t do anything that hasn’t been done before, yet it seems to be doing well for itself. Maybe it’s okay for FGs to be the “hardcore” genre and FPS/MMOs be the “casual” genre.
Another part of me thinks that FGs need to get into the 21st century already. This has almost everything to do with online play. Why is it that Starcraft manages to be so popular despite its incredibly high learning curve? It might be because it has an online infrastructure that works and a ranking system that makes sense. You play on Battle.net and get horribly destroyed. What happens next? You get sent to the bronze league and play against other people who got horribly destroyed. This allows you to slowly build up your skills and improve without hitting major roadblocks. This goes against the FG mentality of getting sent to the wolves and having to level up or die, though, so it may not work. Not to mention FGs have a long way to go to improve netcode/lobbies/search filters (which almost never work lol)/ spectator/replays/practically everything involving online play.
Challenges/tutorials/etc. have already been covered; improving on them never hurts.
Basically, the FGs themselves don’t need to be changed. It’s the overall package surrounding the FGs that need improvement.
You know, was thinking about this, and maybe the answer is to make the games themselves less lag-sensitive. There’s only so far netcode (even with rollback) can take us.
not everyone who plays fighting games wants to be competitive though, believe it or not (I’m one of them, obviously). Skullgirls definitely has an awesome tutorial mode, but the problem is that it feels more like a bootcamp for those who wish to play competitively eventually. There are those who play fighting games casually, because its fun on that level, and it’s even more fun when there’s lots of content to unlock, which is why I still play Blazblue every now and then what with all the gallery stuff to unlock, the stupid animu story, and all the different modes.
Honestly, I don’t think fighting games need to change for the better if you’re talking about the competitive demographic who enjoys the genre. The issue that fighting developers would have to address is either to cater to this small audience and become a fully niche genre (and hopefully make their games cost less), or try to stay relevant to the entire game industry by appealing to the rest of the crowd without alienating the competitive crowd
now if we really want to get to the nitty gritty, im glad were talking about in game IN FUCKING DEPTH tutorials! VF4:Evo was great about that and so is Skullgirls and to an extent, Blaz Blue. and yes, i think tutorials need to get as in depth as they can. And yes, sometimes that means dealign with walls of text. but as long as the walls of text are only concentrated on teaching you the techniques you want and leave the fluff out then i think its worth it.
To me, fighting games as far as teaching newcomers is concerned needs to be ALL ABOUT TRANSPARENCY. Everything that can be seen or shown should be if its relevant information to the player. that includes teaching about frames, what plus and minus on hit and blocks are, basically EVERYTHING. i think the somewhat tough part is bringing it all together in an easily palatable tutorial that gives both decent text as well as letting the player familiarize theirselves with said techniques. We’ll see how far it goes but i do hope more studios pay attention to these ideals. Fighting games should be about making players play SMARTER, not HARDER.
In B4 ‘SRK is a site for the competitive community!’
~~
The sad thing is, you can totally make an accessible game and not have it be ‘dumbed down’ (use of which term, by the way, is an absolute mark that the speaker doesn’t know what the fuck they’re talking about)
There’s absolutely no reason a well-designed game can’t have it both ways, except people have a habit of thinking of things as zero-sum, ie that to gain one thing you always lose out on another.
There’s an inherent issue with the way time investment works in FGs right now.
The current way most FG’s do it is Single Player Practice time.
The better, and also original arcade way is Learn by Playing Multiplayer.
This is one of the biggest things, in my opinion, that keeps fighting games niche. The specific form of practice is unappealing to many many, and unlike almost every other game.
People are going on about making games more accessible, but the fact is people in general don’t want challenges. They want to just beat people right off the bat with no thought needed. First person shooters are not 1v1 any more for a reason. Every other genre of game has ways of circumventing challenge.
Everyone I know, on this site included, promotes getting together and playing to learn.
If someone asks “how do I learn the game”, most people would respond “play it”, and the only way you can really play a fighting game is with other people.
Sure, you practice your combos, spacing, and setups alone, but that’s the same for every game.
[LIST]
[]MMOs reward thought time and grinding (and are very carefully and specifically to suck you into grinding more)
[]FPS and RTS and some fighting games reward competitive play.
[*]Many of the current fighting games reward practice mode time first, then competitive play.
[/LIST]
Grinding is funny because it taps into some deep psychological urge, which is why you’re seeing other genres try to get in on that action. It keeps people playing
Edit:
The current crop of FGs are different because they generally *require practice mode time to reach the minimum acceptable level of competence. *
If you jump right into Skullgirls or MvC3 without getting your combos down first, you’re absolutely going to get slaughtered. There’s simply no way to make up for that particular skill, and the only reasonable way to get it is through lab time.
Compare to ST or TTT or MK2, where beyond learning basic special motions (and not even that for tekken) you can be reasonably competent right off the bat.
I can tell you right now, if anyone tried to come at me without knowing their strings in Tekken, they would get hard bodied.
Even in mid level super turbo play combos have importance.
The point is, if you don’t “know”, then you’re not “competent”, considering the definition of competent means that you can do something effectively.
How can you effectively play a fighting game when you’re just mashing buttons, how can you effectively do anything without learning the basics?
That applies to EVERYTHING, from particle physics to football.
Don’t believe me, go on GGPO and play Vampire Savior with someone who knows what they’re doing.
Nope. L-canceling was put in intentionally. It was actually in the first Smash Bros as Z-canceling, so there was no real discovery needed for Melee’s version.
And L-canceling is a terrible mechanic that no sane designer should ever try to emulate in a fighting game.
You can solo for a good amount of time in MMOs, they don’t force you to play competitively with other people, nor is it even required, but the option is there. With so much equipment to get, and an EXP and currency system, it feels like you’re doing much more in MMOs that just fighting and training for competitive play.
yep yep, exactly.
I’m contemplating making a thread here for a game my team and I are making, since there’s a chance we can get funded in a month and I’d really like to see what everyone thinks about it
