Thankfully then, it’s more like Marvel.
That said, despite being designed for the core community, Skullgirls IMO does more than any FG released since 2009 to actually move the genre forward in accessibility while not adding compromises.
It’s still better than just dumbing down the mechanics of the game…and not explain how the game works.
90% of Modern gaming do tutorial with wall of texts…so it still better option than not explaining the game at all.
Only the shitty tutorials. The good one goes above and beyond and even replays things in slow-motion for a better understanding. Here’s a sampling…
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This game even had exhibition matches of top players going at it to give an idea of what you could do with your characters and see these type of things work out in a live match. You could go in it with any character to see what flow charts worked and what moves worked pertaining to character specifics. The single player mode let you do assign certain tasks that you practiced from the training mode, for matches, to help you unlock items and get better in the process. This game came out in 2003 and laid a template out for other companies to copy. The game sold for $20 brand new.
Hell VF5 ver.B and C didn’t have this but still give an OK training mode to practice the very basics and still included exhibition matches with optional commentary in Japanese and English.
I feel people should start posting at the appropiate places about ideas like this (Capcom Community for Capcom fighters for instance) and there would have a lot better chance to see stuff like this included in their games, on the disc.
Here’s hoping that VF5:FS and TTT2U have buff training modes on par with VF4:EVO. This is what games really need, but they also need interest from companies and consumers, but that turns into another discussion as well.
Problem being there are so very few games with good tutorials.
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The problem isn’t making fighting games better on a mechanical level, we know what we like and want in our games. The problem is adding in accessibility to games for the newcomer, and then taking it a step further and moving players forward at all phases by teaching them things about the game and its mechanics.
Ya know why cali and japan are the best places for FG’s right now? because players get to level up off of each other because they actually have a foundation to do so, imagine if a game could use tutorials and an actually competent computer to level you up without needing another person? Then everyone would have a chance to level up. Skull girls is a good start, its tutorial is an amazing starting point for newcomers to fighting games, it babies you and force feeds you in an elegant way. What it doesn’t do is offer anything to the mid level player which is where way too many people end up sitting due to lack of legit comp locally or the online warrior syndrome. If a game did what skull girls did for newcomers, and then took it further with strategies and challenges for the mid level player it would hit a perfect spot.
The problem is a game doesn’t develop until the community gets its hands on the game and tech is found and the game is broken in. So its basically impossible to out of the box have a game that will develop its players into monsters. And realistically no developer is gonna say " ok yeah update the game with new tutorials as the community breaks the hell out of our game " its just not gonna happen that way.
SG tutorial was O K but nothing great. It didn’t go over things like the IPS or other mechanics. It was an good start for a 2d fighther, I guess…
Really good for beginners I would say, but yeah it didn’t do quite enough for everyone else if you ask me.
Btw fucking awesome avatar pic.
the thing is that all games are fun at different levels, i know a lot of people that love playing gg, who cant do a frc to save their lives, or that doesnt know anything about the mechanics on it, yet enjoy the game without any complaint
the problem comes that there a lot of idiots who think that they should be able to compete against people who are dedicated
nothing stops you of having fun playing a game, but you cant expect to do great against someone that puts their time to learn the ins and outs of a game, this its true to fgs, fps, sport games or any other activity where putting your time woud give you better skills.
i have a background on ifferent competitive games outside fighting games, sports games, mainly soccer games and racing games, games that are enyojed by casuals and harcore alike, games like fg, where there can be a very huge gap between a pro and a noob, and that doesnt stop them for enjoying them, is only on fgs where i see a lot of faggots who think that they should be able to do well without putting some time on getting better, shitheads that dont understand how fg works but feel that they know how to improve the genre, that shit its fucking sad
Before you ask how to change FGs for the better, first start with stopping to change them for the worse.
Developers need to learn to do accessibility right, in a way that won’t make the game shallower.
"How could fighting games change for the better?"
I think everyone is doing okay or even great, ‘cept for Capcom. (They’re goofin’ THE fuck up right now)
The solution would be: "Get a time machine."
However, knowing the situation, we would probably have to purchase crap that are in said machine before it’s 100% to go.
That input shit has already been tried. Its called simple mode in MVC3 and TVC (if Im not mistaken).
It has also been tried in xT. Quick combos. You press 2 buttons and you do a full combo.
Neither one is used for competitive play.
^^^ Seconded. This basically points out, that at the lowest level, every competitive genre is the same. Regarding execution, there has never been a real accessibility issue for FGs. Only the transitions from beginner to intermediate level are always called into question.
Getting rid of mechanics that reward you for losing would be a great start.
i understand that a lot of people would be turned off by so much text, but then again even if it only gets used by 1 person out of 10, just the fact of having it still there is certainly not detrimental for the game.
i know there are lots of players out there who do read into lore/history or whatever of a lot of other games. i cant be the only person who read all the descriptions of each planet or weapon in mass effect 1-2 to appreciate the way the world was built and how the technology worked etc etc.
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I think SF2 Hyper Fighting should be the game that all future fighting games aspire to in the sense that it’s fighting at its most basic, but also most solid. There’s no BS that gets in the way of the fighting, which is why I think HF is better than ST, because ST is where Capcom started adding garbage to an already solid game.
Devs don’t seem to think, “How can we make the fighting system as solid as it can be” so much as they think, “What flashy shit can we add that will look great on the back of a game box when Johnny Cheesedick comes into GameStop looking for a new game?” Which I get, but at the same time, it’s easier to get a lot of money out of a few people than it is to get a little money out of a lot of people. I don’t know about you guys, but I’d be willing to pay MORE money for good games knowing they were solid.
From a 2d fighter standpoint I agree. Meter management is cool and all, and I could see how people would be into it, but just focusing on my opponent and life bars is fine by me.
As far as meters go in 2d games, I think KOF '02UM did it the best, followed by Alpha 2.
Dat Basil Poledouris
Also, you can never really know what games will be embraced by the community and what games will be left out to die. Again, the VF example has to be brought up, because even though (reputably) it’s the most solid game around, people just don’t like in the US. Yet Marvel 3, a game many can agree had some…questionable choices ingrained into its design draws 1000+ for Evo.
(In Okinawa though, all the Japanese seem to play is Virtua Fighter. VF, Tekken, and Gundam Vs.)
3d games do “basic” really well. Imo, VF does it the best. I guess in Tekken, they have Rage but I wonder if that was just added for the sake of adding something? It doesn’t seem to change the game THAT much, no? Wouldn’t mind hearing a Tekken’s head thought on it.
I think it’s a good thread, to post Ideas about making FG’s better. 1st start with better online inputs that delay shit pisses me off. It reminds of KOF XIII the game is overall great but the Drive modes is overbearing I’ll be damned if I’m a keep doing dps and qcf’s for 3 seconds straight, so I can see the thread point in that. But back in the 90’s Street Figther 2 for super nintendo had modes where you can turn on and off supers it was a fun experience just seeing Ryu or Ken couldn’t do a Dragon Punch and I think and I could be wrong but I Fighters Impact had something where you can set your own controls but I will stand to be correct. But there were a few Japanese PS One fighters that were in the category of setting your controls that made it better. But SF X Tekken has simple inputs and it’s comfortable for me cause some nights I’m not in the mood for doing all that extra shit to win matches, thats what separates casuals from pros. Pros like challenges and would rather earn they’re wins, but if things were simple and too easy you’ll see a boycott ask Ono for SF X Tekken for “crossing that line” compilcated controls gives Pros a since of accomplishment so is beating Daigo and if anyone does that they’ll retire who else is there left to beat? Some don’t like Marvel cause it’s too simple some don’t play SF 4 AE, of KOF XIII cause it’s too technical. but there’s something for everyone to play. Bottom line is people don’t like change that’s just most nature but few do. Today’s people as well as FGC Vets like FG’s the way it is, which is why they buy Arcade sticks they lust for the challenge of executions, putting up tutorials, and video instructions to win can’t blame then it’s been like that for years changing thing’s is like taking McDonalds from America. So much for fries right?