Let’s flip that around though. If it doesn’t make the game worse, why not make the game easier?
Edit: Hecatom; it’s a subject people love to talk about. I personally think its great that people enjoy exploring these ideas 
good point.
Well, I think I’m about done with this thread. not annoyed at anyone, we just seem to not be getting anywhere
I would really like to get away from controls for a second.
I mean, if that’s the only argument anyone has, might as well change the topic title.
How about the design of a game from the ground up.
How about how combos are treated?
Do you prefer chains or links?
Why have we never discussed any of this?
How about Roman Cancels, or Bursts, or parrying, or negative edging?
It’s been 18 pages about making controls easier, when they’re literally the most barebones thing already.
Why is Chicken Wing not a DP? Because he already has a dp motion.
@Xes:So now you just want to change shit to change shit, why?
If there’s no reason to change it, why in blue blazes are you changing it?
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
And there are plenty things broke with plenty fighting games, but inputs aren’t one of them.
Use Kinect to shout special moves kappa
Short version, I don’t believe in sacred cows. Given all other things equal, easier is better. The trick question is ‘can you make things easier without hurting gameplay?’ If you can answer that with a definite ‘yes’ then you should make things easier.
I actually did a post that addressed my answers to almost all of those those questions though, let me see if I can find it in this mess, if I can I’ll edit in.
edit: found it
And now, to debate, WHY do those things make a better fighter?
Why do single juggles make a better fighter.
How do people feel about wall bounces/groundbounces?
[media=youtube]7o8yWSmkMMQ[/media]
Discuss.
are you kidding me? do you have any idea how easy move execution is these days compared to some of the classic fighting games?
comedy
Simple juggles make a fighter better, essentially, because you always want both players to feel like they’re able to do something. There are ways to get around this with more extended combo systems (bursts, IPS breaking, the possibilities of TACs), but they’re generally a little dodgy in that regard.
Also, in terms of specific taste I find long combos kind of dull, a ‘punchy’ short combo is in my opinion more dramatic, especially if the base damage is high (which I also support).
In my opinion, both wall bounces and ground bounces should be fairly rare, but are great if used right. You can use them to add a big sense of impact to a move, but lose their effectiveness if they're too common (T6 bounds kind of fall under that, they're so universal that they're not very punchy). Wall bounces are especially good for that because any move that really sends you flying gives that satisfying 'KTFO!!!' feeling.
(per smash vid) Oh, you :p
As some even cloudier examples, 'are these fighting games, and why or why not?'
[media=youtube]OQZk_8ieELw[/media]
[media=youtube]wdfIfC9BHwQ[/media]stop considering your opinion and what you like as an absolute to measure of what makes a fighting game better
just saying
All they really need to do is stop trying to dumb everything down. FG’s are great because if you practice/play you get better, and alot of the newer school kids just want to win from day 1 and it doesn’t work like that.
Everyone says this, but nobody has any idea what they mean by it.
Well considering how I constantly talk about how things are subjective yet, that’d be a given, no?
Although the ‘interactivity’ thing is a real concern in game design. In no way did I invent that.
Lol SF4 is accessible? The rule that you must link last normal to special cancel is nowhere in the manual or game, nor does it explain what a link is.
stop slowing games down, crazy input short cuts, comeback mechanics that potentially reward you for getting beat. Pay to win mechanics (gems). things like that. And generally sticking to what made them good before and building off of that foundation.
-Drastic comeback mechanics in favor of subtle ones
-Loose input recognition that result ends up being harmful
-Gems
-Making universal throws slow/weak/not scary
-Making keepaway weak
Not surprised xes liked that post, he loves thinking people who share his thoughts are the only knowledgable ones.
Keep away isn’t as weak as people think it is. I mean look at Dieminon hes proof that keep away is still good/possible, though there should be a balance between the two. but thats a completely different topic.
Its more I hate the term ‘dumbing down the game’
It’s another of those things that almost inevitably means people don’t even understand what makes a game deep.
Or it’s that people notice something is amiss and they express it, colloquially, that something has been “dumbed down”. Some people know exactly what is “off”, others can’t identify what but can notice it.
Stop splitting hairs.
In SF4, keepaway only exists on the East Coast.
I want to see how effective Chris G’s keepaway is outside the EC.
SFxT meh
And I suppose you do?
This is coming from a guy who said:
You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.