I spotted a several major problems with that setup after seeing it for just a few seconds,which i can’t post right now, it would lead to something worse than what we have now. Try thinking about what would happen when you put a hard finite limit on the number of specials/supers a character can have, and what it means from both a game design and a player standpoint.
Ex. arcana has 3 attack buttong but it also has 2 other dedicated buttons and more possible specials than probably any other game you would need at least 8 buttons to play a game like arcana in this format and even with 8 button every character and arcana in the game would have to lose moves.
Specials could be directional, so pressing X produces a short range flame burst, forward + X throws a flame projectile, and back + X creates a flame shield. You could also have chording, so X+A does a lunging flaming punch, X+B for a flaming knee… or whatever.
A character would need a staggering number of moves to require more buttons using this system.
Training modes/tutorials like VF4:EVO and VF5FS along with Skullgirls should be mandatory. As much shit as SFxT gets, their tutorial thing is a step in the right direction.
I’m gonna throw some random shit out here too…
Limb based hitboxes. Properties of getting clipped in the arm with an attack should generally be very different from taking that same attack in the head or chest.
I’d be okay with this depending on how it’s implemented.
For example a shoryuken that just gets the edge of a character’s hitbox theoretically should not be as powerful as hitting them full-on.
Would it encourage or decrease movement during the footsies stage? Would it increase or decrease “lol magic pixel” moments or wonky hitboxes?
no shit, this is what Ive been thinking the whole time lurking this thread.
SF4 brought back casuals/09ers/sale numbers/whatever through brand name and marketing, not ‘scrub friendly’ game mechanics.
A non-FG player isnt going to decide to pick up SF4/UMVC3 because it has ‘scrub friendly mechanics’ lol
I love how someone posted a video of a DP only Sagat winning and claiming 'ANYONE CAN WIN IN SF4, LOOK’
Simplified DPs and Ultra comback mechanic aren’t exactly helping <1 year players place in major tournaments.
Sure, they create bad gameplay (mashable DPs, raw Ultra comebacks) but in the end of the day, SF4, just like any other competitive game or activity does depend on skill. Skill that is grown through experience and practiting. Some of you just don’t want to admit that it seems.
Then you have games with good tutorials like VF4 or BB which have far less players than Capcoms games. hmmm?
Ah, but here’s the thing, you’re still thinking from the confines from another game. I’m saying build a game entirely from the ground up with these restrictions in mind. You can’t take any existing game and convert them into the system I proposed without problems. But what’s preventing a game from being built from the ground up with those restrictions in mind? There are plenty of characters out there that have shown that you can have an interesting moveset with only two or three special moves. By motion, I’m strictly referring to stuff like QCF, DP, half circles, not command normal-esque motions. So f+X, d+X, and b+X could all be different specials.
This still doesn’t eliminate the benefits of execution and the chance of failure. Combos will still require knowledge, timing, and practice. Footsies and whiff punishing will still require practice and reactions. Zoning will still require a deep knowledge of your own character. All of these still carry the risk of failure with them. Tekken and Soul Calibur (and possibly Melee, but let’s not go there right now) show that you can have a complex fighting game with some characters that have minimal motion requirements. But even Super Smash Bros. Melee has an insanely high execution barrier with single button specials if you want to do stuff like Fox’s waveshine infinite.
Boiling down motions to their very strictest tenants, what do they actually add to the genre? What is the difference between pressing a button for a special move and inputting a motion+button for the same special move? What gameplay elements does having a QCF motion have for a fireball actually add? As far as I can tell, having a QCF motion for a fireball instead of no motion means:
[LIST]
[]There’s some extra start up time (the physical motion itself) when the move is done in a vacuum
[]There’s an inherent chance for failure in performing the move where you’ll get a punch if you screw up (or in some games, if there’s already a fireball on the screen and it missed the opponent for whatever reason)
[*]You can’t reversal negative edge an option select with the special and block because the move doesn’t end in back (for games with strict reversal windows)
[/LIST]
The last point is something that’s a minor issue at most.
Is the chance for failure in doing a motion really something that’s so valuable to the integrity of the competitiveness of a fighting game that motions HAVE to be in a fighter? There’s still plenty of dropped combos and missed punishes from people screwing up things besides motions. All the motion does is just frustrate new players. Our answer to them right now is suck it up and spend time in training mode to learn better execution. But is that really teaching them the basics of what to do against another player?
As for the physical input itself adding startup time to the move, why not simply add the startup time to the move as in inherent property? If a fireball takes 1 frame to do the QCF motion, why not have the same exact fireball motion done with a single button but with an additional frame of startup when the command is done in a vacuum? Obviously, that 1 frame of input time is masked if you’re doing the move as a reversal, in a combo, after backdash, after an airdash, etc. but if you’re doing it from a neutral state, why can’t the move be different and have the ‘emulated’ start up?
The reason all attempts at single-button specials have failed so far is that every single one of them has attempted to map specials to buttons where the motion itself is tightly integrated to the functionality of the move. Single button dragon punch in SFIV just doesn’t work because part of the functionality of the move is that it takes a split second to input the motion to do the DP as an antiair (and in non-SFIV games, you have stand for a split second for it). But again, if you design a game from the ground up with single button specials in mind, you can balance the move accordingly.
One of the major problems with this system is that it does not allow the functionality of charge moves. I think that’s just something that has to be given up with single button specials.
Remember, this is how fighting games could change for the better. I’m not talking about taking any current fighting game and converting it to single button specials, I’m talking about future fighting games having them and being designed for them.
This is not a system for auto combos like what Blazblue or MvC3 simple mode does. This is a system that dedicates 3 buttons for normals and 3 buttons for specials.
Care to explain why it’s bad? How exactly is a game without motions inherently inferior to a game with one besides just being something different?
Imagine a character like this:
A is a generic standing jab, short range, quick start up
B is a gut punch, medium range, medium start up
C is a big roundhouse kick at a slightly upward angle, long range, long start up
Crouching A is a generic crouching short, short range, quick start up
Crouching B is a low kick with medium range and medium start up
Crouching C is a sweep, medium range, medium start up
Forward B is a hopkick
Forward C is an overhead of some sort
Down forward C is a ‘mexican uppercut,’ if this is an anime style fighter, then it’s also a launcher
Jump A is a jumping punch that has straight angle
Jump B is kick that has cross up potential
Jump C is a punch that angles downwards
Close C is throw.
Any glaring problems with three buttons for normals? There’s still a decent number of directions that don’t have command normals attached to them, so it’s not like there’s a lack of normals.
So now we move onto specials. Let’s do gradated specials with different strengths like what Ilthuain described.
Neutral X, Y, and Z are fireballs with different speeds
Forward X, Y, and Z are uppercuts with varying ranges/invulnerability, the damage and startup of which is obviously designed to compensate for the fact that there’s no motion.
Down X, Y, and Z are body slams where the character jumps forward. Think Sean’s body slam from SF3 or Abel’s wheel kick.
Pressing more than one of X/Y gets an EX version.
A super would be done by pressing all three at the same time.
Why is this inherently worse than having motions for these same specials? Why does lacking motions make this game inherently less competitive than if it had motions?
I’m talking execution strictly in the sense of motions. Even the people with poor execution by tournament standards can still do motions more or less entirely consistently. When I think of someone with poor execution at a tournament level, I don’t imagine a person who can’t do a simple DP motion consistently, I imagine someone who can’t consistently do C. Viper’s seismo cancels, Sakura’s tatsu loops, or SJCing into ultra for Viper and Ibuki. For motions, it really is those who can do it and those who can’t. There’s very little middle ground for being able to do a dragon punch motion and not being able to do it.
Because its an inherently emotional clique term. If you’re carrying on about catering to the scrubs, its pretty clear evidence you’re not actually thinking about the issues.
Yeah, I was totally posting so much in the last 12 hours! I totally didn’t drive 30 miles to a party, then have to break into my own car by smashing a window, then go to work still recovering from said party, then walk from the auto repair shop to my home, get 3 hours sleep, then walk back to the auto repair shop to pick said car up!
ehh, honestly, I’m a bit tired of saying “we need to find a balance in complexity and accessibility” but everyone assumes making anything SLIGHTLY easier is bad, so I’m not the only one seeing things in extremes
Making something accessible and making it easier are two different things.
How is SF4 NOT accessible, it’s accessible as shit, it’s the most accessible fighting game besides Skullgirls, and that’s the most accessible fighting game ever.