How Could Fighting Games Change for the Better?

[Austin_QED]

Here is how to change fighting games for the better - http://ufgtus.wordpress.com/2012/05/05/the-one-true-game-only-playable-at-ufgt8/

CLOSE THIS THREAD

[media=youtube]rU8n9tGCmwY[/media]

The best fighting game has already been made.

[xes]

create a game that can stand the test of time, without a thousand patches or whoring out all of the dlc, forcing players to purchase in order to stay competitive/ enjoy what should have already been included.

Go climb Everest while you’re at it

Edit: I’m kind of worried about that film, does this means we’re gonna be hearing that every 3 seconds for the next 19 months?

[Hogosha]

Go climb Everest while you’re at it

Edit: I’m kind of worried about that film, does this means we’re gonna be hearing that every 3 seconds for the next 19 months?

This is a problem only if you’re afraid of SOUL MATCHES.

http://media.screened.com/uploads/0/1144/275355-tsung.jpg

LIIIIIIUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

[Austin_QED]

This is a problem only if you’re afraid of SOUL MATCHES.

LIIIIIIUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

He’s not ready to bet his soul!

[Shin_Akuma]

create a game that can stand the test of time, without a thousand patches or whoring out all of the dlc, forcing players to purchase in order to stay competitive/ enjoy what should have already been included.

It’s been done already. Super Turbo. Longest active tournament game.

[MikeBreezy92]

Tekken always had huge move lists with 90% moves that are useless at high level just so that it can “appear” cool to a total noob. (“OMG 100 MOVES!! WHILE GUILE ONLY HAS 2 MOVES!”) Also crushes and rage and fancy huge juggles that take forever…

(Crushing in theory is fine but they always gave this property to the wrong moves, like juggle starters, just to let the lesser player feel that he always has a chance to get a lucky win.)

And in general, the focus of the later Tekkens went towards launchers and (because of that-) defensive play rather than pokes and aggressive play. (Which is the thing they should have kept from T4 but never did sadly.)

In short, the catering to casuals should always be with fan service and extra modes rather than in mechanics, but even then they should be on a completely separate budget that won’t hinder from the important, core stuff.

And Im gonna have to disagree with you there regarding defensive play being focus in later games. Defensive play has always been Tekken’s thing. T4 only deviated away from that because movement was nerfed to hell so you really had no choice but to be aggressive.

Why do you think that the crush system shouldn’t be applied to launchers? And I do agree that movelists should be cut down though.

[xes]

It’s been done already. Super Turbo. Longest active tournament game.

was thinking about that, and funnily, possibly excluding ST, most of the ‘classic’ Capcom games were nearing the end of their competitive lifespans anyways. CvS2 was done, 3S was stagnated down to 2-3 characters, and MvC2 had all of the big tournaments dominated by 1-2 players.

(don’t hurt me!)

[jedpossum]

It’s been done already. Super Turbo. Longest active tournament game.

I would like to see Poo battle planner/producer working on fighting games, again. Or, at least what is left of the SF2:HF crew at Arika to make another fighter.

[shoutzula]

It’s been done already. Super Turbo. Longest active tournament game.

And better than the current shit being made. Fuck scrubs.

[Shwaffles]

(don’t hurt me!)

Take one of these just in case.

http://domillehasenfuss.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/flameshield.jpg

[tataki]

Why do you think that the crush system shouldn’t be applied to launchers?

I think if you have a move that leads to a full combo, it needs to be nerfed in all the other areas. Hit level, speed, safety on block and whiff, linearity and evasive properties.
Having a move that’s extremely damaging, pretty fast, pretty safe and evades highs or lows (or replace the evasion with being completely safe) is a pretty scrubby design in my view and I’m pretty sure it was made to give lesser players a nice panic button they can sometimes squeeze a lucky win with.
Don’t get me wrong- I’m the cheapest mother fucker when I play Tekken and I abuse the flawed parts of its risk reward ratio, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t think it’s bad design.

[xes]

It’s kind of funny, a modern revision of ST was in fact done, but gets totally no love at all

edit: in before It’s just being bad at communication!!

[tataki]

why should a move that serves as a good launcher be weak in other areas, because you said so? because you got launched and juggled and don’t want to adapt? get bodied scrub.

Man sometimes your posts are so annoying… It’s like you are purposely looking for a chance to preach from a holier than thou position…
I just said** I’m the one who is using it** to win at Tekken. Read it again. I’m the one who is winning.

But one of its effects is that it overshadows poking and makes offense riskier, turning the game into a much more defensive one. (Which is less fun to play.)
So even when I win I still want the game to change to be better, smarter, more fun to play.

[Reno]

create a game that can stand the test of time, without a thousand patches or whoring out all of the dlc, forcing players to purchase in order to stay competitive/ enjoy what should have already been included.

Sorry, but that’s A LOT harder than you make it out to be. Fact of the matter is that even though I think ST is a fantastic game and is really the pinnacle of the SF series, it still took 4 iterations before we got to ST. I’m not a fan of the Guilty Gear series, but it’s the same with that franchise too. There’s not one game out there that got it right the first time, which is why patches are a good thing. I’m very against patches after 2 - 3 months because that seems way too short to allow a game to stew, but a balance update after a year and after analyzing as much data as possible? Yeah, that seems fine to me.

BTW, part 4 of my editorial is up!
http://www.versuscity.net/2012/05/06/how-to-make-fighting-games-better-part-4/

[BlackShinobi]

Sorry, but that’s A LOT harder than you make it out to be. Fact of the matter is that even though I think ST is a fantastic game and is really the pinnacle of the SF series, it still took 4 iterations before we got to ST. I’m not a fan of the Guilty Gear series, but it’s the same with that franchise too. There’s not one game out there that got it right the first time, which is why patches are a good thing. I’m very against patches after 2 - 3 months because that seems way too short to allow a game to stew, but a balance update after a year and after analyzing as much data as possible? Yeah, that seems fine to me.

BTW, part 4 of my editorial is up!
http://www.versuscity.net/2012/05/06/how-to-make-fighting-games-better-part-4/

A visual difference in properly executed moves is actually quite brilliant, not only for the reward, but it give someone who plays the same character but doesn’t get those animations a reason to say “what is this person doing that I’m not doing?” or “why does that move look differently when that person does it?” or “how do I do that move?” it even serves as a way to lessen complaining after a loss, if the person who beat you is getting out perfect versions of moves all or nearly all of the time, and you can’t, then it’s probably not the random luck you want to make it out to be to justify losing.
Questions are the doorway to learning, so if the game can by its design reward good play and raise some questions in less skilled players then even apart from its gameplay it would still qualify as a step in the right direction.

[Femto_1]

Perfect Giant Swing get’s on my nerves, but I can’t hate on Akira’s True DLC combo.

[Mr.X]

BTW, part 4 of my editorial is up!
http://www.versuscity.net/2012/05/06/how-to-make-fighting-games-better-part-4/

The current trend with games now is that we have to cater to the casual or core gamer, that we have to make things easier for them — or coddle them, to be more blunt — so that they’ll want to keep playing our games. I say this is a bunch of silly talk and all that’s going to do is make the game boring, and not fun to play. What we as developers should be doing is rewarding good play, not rewarding players who aren’t playing well. Don’t take this to mean that I want things to be super difficult to execute; all I want is a visible disparity between an average player and a very good player. And right now that doesn’t exist, design-wise.

We need to embrace the idea that within a set of hard rules, creativity can blossom and flourish, and that you will be rewarded for playing smarter, and playing better than your opponent. We need to embrace the idea that our users, our customers, are intelligent and don’t need to be coddled; they just need to have clear, tangible and worthwhile goals

<3

[MikeBreezy92]

But one of its effects is that it overshadows poking and makes offense riskier, turning the game into a much more defensive one. (Which is less fun to play.)
So even when I win I still want the game to change to be better, smarter, more fun to play.

So basically Tekken needs to be more offensive oriented to be fun to play? Seems like taste than actual bad game design.

[tataki]

So basically Tekken needs to be more offensive oriented to be fun to play?

That’s the thing about “fun”… It’s subjective…

BTW, part 4 of my editorial is up!
http://www.versuscity.net/2012/05/06/how-to-make-fighting-games-better-part-4/

I can’t say I agree about that as I always hated those extra stronger version of moves. For example Cervantes’ improved psycho crusher thingy…
I’m all for making motions easier, as long as it does not change what it allows you to do in the game. (SF4’s new DP motion which you used as an example, allowed you to DP from a crouch position, and without dropping lower guard.)
I don’t need the motions of the game to create the disparity. I want the disparity to be in the tactics and the ability to execute them. Spacing well requires both technical skill and wits even when all the motions required to do it are easy by themselves.

[YungKratos]

I think if you have a move that leads to a full combo, it needs to be nerfed in all the other areas. Hit level, speed, safety on block and whiff, linearity and evasive properties.
Having a move that’s extremely damaging, pretty fast, pretty safe and evades highs or lows (or replace the evasion with being completely safe) is a pretty scrubby design in my view and I’m pretty sure it was made to give lesser players a nice panic button they can sometimes squeeze a lucky win with.
Don’t get me wrong- I’m the cheapest mother fucker when I play Tekken and I abuse the flawed parts of its risk reward ratio, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t think it’s bad design.

So you must be anti low parry?(it launches can be safe and option selected into alot of stuff) The main evasive launcher is hopkick. Hopkick as well as Low parry are there to make using lows scarier. Lows need to be scary because crouching is risky due to the amount of time it takes to stand up from crouch and difficulty of crouch canceling. Crouching needs to be risky because if it wasnt everyone would just downback. Movement as well as all of the other upclose mindgames that make Tekken, Tekken would be useless and we’d be playing Street Fighter with a sidestep. So I figure they’ve got everything figured out.

Speaking of Tekken If I were to say there was a game or series that was the standard or model to build up on going into the future of the genre that would be it.

Also:
DAT TAG2 GET HYPE!!!