There’s also being a hater tho’.
This place already has way too many ‘all the new and popular games suck!’ people.
Why does Skullgirls keep getting singled out in these discussions about talking about a game too much like it didn’t happen to any other game?
It’s going to happen to Tekken x SF, SF5, DS4 and whatever else. It will happen after too if a lot of people like it, and it won’t happen if it ends being another SFxT or 3SOE.
I wish more fighters took the approach Skullgirls did and let them try it out a lot and give feedback in development but those devs are in Japan and can’t just show up to a weekly or major because they don’t really have those events or can’t travel to the US like that. It would be great for them to adapt it but Japan’s scene would need to change or relocate in Cali.
Actually, SEGA is kind of doing that here. They are going to a few majors with the console version letting people try the game. I don’t know the details on VF5FS at Southtown, do they own the board or is SEGA just bringing it with them for the Ranbats?
there is a difference between being a hater and actually describing why a specific game has flaws and how those flaws fuck up the game. Haters hate for no reason, which is 100% opposite of what I do for “bad” games. I will actually tell you why that mechanic sucks and how it affects the rest of the game it a bad way
like I said a while back, it has nothing to do with old vs new. As the guy who posted up above me, vf5 and kof are fantastic games that don’t have to do the shitty Capcom philosophy of making games.
I can post objectively, stop degrading the conversation into your universe. I’m pretty sure everyone in this thread can agree that barbie horse adventure is a very bad game. Therefore to some extent there are bad fighters too. People have different criteria though to reach that conclusion. The better you are at fighters, the more well rounded your criteria is to identify faulty mechanics.
Well we probably don’t want to get into that, but just trust me as an outsider, the… ferocity of the fans is way out of line with the other ‘this new game is our salvation!’ types.
The useful comparison is to KOF, which does get some love, was considered the game that would save us, but didn’t have the hyperdefensive/we must make every conversation about our game! fans.
It’s the combination of the need to make every discussion about how their game is gonna fix everything (although that’s died down some) and the absolute angry defensiveness if anything bad is some (that’s also died down some).
tl;dr It gets singled out because its fans are more fanatical
... and we're talking about it again lolHow many people here know of 5 other indie fighters that are coming out. How much hype is surrounding them? How much work is being put into them to get that same level of fandom as Street Fighter or Skullgirls? People ignore shit all the time. The only reason anyone even looked skullgirls way and it got as popular as it did was the looks it got from Mike Z being on the team. The advertising on the front page of SRK and the constant bs from Capcom also contributed to its fanbase. That’s the thing, unless the name of a well known Fighting game player is attached to a game, no one will play it or even look at it, with the exception being the Melty Blood community. There are like 4 fighters that got released last year that didn’t get a shred of recognition from SRK.
Well honestly, I don’t like any of those games very much, but I think you’re being consistently too harsh on them.
They all have problems, but they also do some things right, they’re not the devil’s invention. None of them are truly BAD games, they’re just games that some of us (including me) don’t like.
Edit: As an example that’s on topic, Skullgirls has problems,and its not a game I ended up enjoying. But it’s also a very solid game that’s meant for people that aren’t me. I have to acknowledge its strengths as much as, if not more than I talk about the things I don’t like, or there’s no point in me even taking part in discussions about it.
Banned: no sock puppet accounts on SRK.
Yeah right, go the MvC3 forum when KoF was new, people were sick of hearing about it and saying “I would buy this game if it wasn’t forced on me” just like with Skullgirls. It’s no different.
KoF and Skullgirls saved fighting games for me. Wish KoF netcode wasn’t so terrible.
Yes and no. I don’t mind new versions on disc as long the whole package gets refreshed ala stages, music, new characters, bonus tweaks, but I would rather see those in two years or three after initial releases as opposed to nine months to one year.
2 button throws only trigger an OS if you program that to do so. In fact I can design a throw system that will prevent any kind of OS.
- no crouch teching and getting an os c.lk. Throwing while crouching = stand throw
- throwing is a normal, not a special to prevent a kara special tactics
- no buffering of reversal+throw to make the game choose its priority to trigger each
boom, you’ve just solved every single problem for throwing in 99% of 2d games. Only game this doesn’t for is marvel because we use all the button combinations already.
no matter what you do with a 1 button throw system, it will always allow OS to be present 10\10.** 2 buttons when done properly remove every single OS available**.
I can’t think of any cons when a 2 button throw is properly implemented. It gets rid of every single problem.
That must’ve been when I had quit the forums for a while, because I don’t remember that. But yeah that’s the thing, it quickly gets to JUST SHUT UP!
Probably SkG is getting it especially bad right now because it’s still the new outsider game, so its getting all the backlash.
@the other guy. You should really play it cooler than you do, this is too obvious and preppy's just gonna ban you again when he notices.
Still, there was a legit question in that.
Target combos are better than chains because they can have an interesting specific look, can give the combo enders specific properties that the normal moves can't have, and are substantially easier to control balance-wise.
The disadvantage is that its' more work from the designer and the artists, but the advantage is that its *both* more varied *and* easier to balance.You’re aware Capcom has other franchises right? Ones I can think of off the bat: Devil May Cry, Lost Planet, Dead Rising, Mega Man (lol), Resident Evil/Bio Hazard, Ace Attorney, Vampire Series/Dark Stalkers, Power Stone(?), Breath of Fire and they have some collaborated projects but they’re not something that they can make regularly because they’re licensed such as Marvel vs Capcom.
These games need more time to develop. They need to give them a good 2-3 years of air time before they push out new versions.
N/T
It’s actually a pretty crazy list.
“letting them a few years to breathe” is kind of weird, its not something games got in the old days. On the other hand, the games that DID get those few years to breathe are the ones everybody looks to now.
IMO, the primary reason why Skullgirls fans come off as more vehement/intense than others is because many of them did come from the GG/Melty/anime/etc FG crowd–and therefore knew from day one that SG was going to get loud mindless criticism and people giving the game a pass because of the artstyle, anime label, etc; regardless of how it was going to turn out. So they got as loud as the haters(or more) to drown them out; for every ‘this game is ass–Mike Z’s ass’ comment you see on stream or on YT, there was/is a ‘this game is godlike have my babies Mike Z’ line. There was a “this is the Jesus of fighting games” mentality to rail against the initial “lol what is this weeaboo MUGEN trash” salvo that the fanbase knew was coming. Sort of a partisan counter-approach, I guess.
I’m not saying this was some agreed-upon some master plan–and some fans definitely believe the SG is the Second Coming for the genre. But this fanaticism is definitely born from the vitriol/snubbing that the mainstream FGC tends to apply to games with the ‘anime’ label.
Most of the hate SG gets now is just muttering, or on the topic of how nutty the internet fans of it are rather than the game itself, so maybe this worked out.
On topic, I wanna bring up the topic of character DLC. I know that competitive-wise, people prefer just what’s on the disc both for tournament organization and because they don’t want to spend more money on the same game at minimum to be current when they need to practice.
I also know that at least corporate side, character DLC seems to be not going anywhere because of how much money they can make off it. Namco hasn’t done it recently (I think?) but everyone else has. People have proven that they will fork over the dough for new material period.
I’m wondering if you could handle post-release support for a game by releasing character DLC, but have competitive ‘seasons’ where TOs are suggested to ban those characters until the next season comes out(or if that won’t work, make them temporarily unplayable except in SP modes like training, and online versus only). So say if you want to get x character now so you can play online and build tech with them, you fork over $5 or whatever, but say 2 months before the new ‘season’ hits every character released since the past one is sold in an AE-style bundle–so in the same example where you paid $5 to play x character now you can get all 6 for $10 at that point.
Maybe the numbers are too wacky, but the idea is to push DLC in a way where you don’t have to spend an arm and a leg to get it by the time you need to have it to keep current with a game competitively(but at the same time keep the suits happy with people being able to impulse buy before that).
this would defo be a problem getting more people interested in a game. esp newcomers. if you are talking sf2 levels of damage i think that would need to be toned down a lot. beginners would need to make A LOT of mistakes for them to realise that they fucked up, not getting hit once or twice and seeing half their life gone.
The problem with the ‘seasons’ thing I think, is that the players would freak the fuck out. You’d have people both upset that they feel like they have to pay to stay competitive, and then upset again that what they paid for is ‘useless’.
And yeah I totally know its not actually useless, you’re still getting what you paid for and you’re getting it for cheap, and its not locking the characters, but that’s just how people think… and bitch. It would just be a huge PR mess
It’s arguably lower damage than in the combo-centric games (SkG and MvC are 2 combos MAX per character death, although the teams make it a bit longer).
The idea of high damage is that you always have a chance at a comeback without needing a specific comeback mechanic, and it keeps matches fast. Even if somebody’s losing, at least its over quickly. They’re KTFO and ready to start the next match.
What you really wanna avoid is having long periods of time where people are losing and feel they can’t do anything about it, whether that’s because they’re stuck in a 15 second combo, or whether they have an 80% life disadvantage and don’t know what to do. Even if they lose, they get another shot right away.
Sure, but that’s not the point. If I assumed the example was for SF characters, It’d just mean for BB it’d be $8 or whatever for singles and $16 for a pack of 6 in the same example.
The actual numbers don’t matter so much as the idea that the bundle would be way cheaper if you waited for it.
Well yeah, but if unlike Capcom we let the playerbase know that this is going to happen in advance(or even mention it ingame), I doubt there’d be such a lashback. I think building trust with the playerbase would be more valuable than fleecing them at every opportunity, even if that is probably naive.
oh you mean how like EA sports scams their community every year? with a new game that is 1% different from the previous year? or how magic the card game scams people routinely per month?
fighting games can remain competitive for over 10+ years w\o a new game. Furthermore, constant updating removes the ability to master ANY game. Being able to watch yipes or clockw0rk in mvc2, players who have spent 7-10 years of their life working on a specific style for a character results in mastery. With a new game every year, you will no longer see that level of play but rather fundamental play every year. It dilutes the quality of the play immensely
mastery needs to be a part of the equation and that can’t be done with a new update\patch every 6-12 months. Its why people hate updates. There is no time to play and learn the game and it becomes just pick the strongest shit that no one can figure out in the first year then the patch drops and pick the strongest thing again that will last for a year. That shit strategy never works for games where the game is around for 10+ years because counters get developed. If you nerfed year 1 mvc2 from a year 10 perspective, the nerf didn’t make sense. look @ the sentinel nerf in mvc3, sentinel was already shitty to begin with and you nerfed a shit character? why?
DLC characters are a bad idea. The simple concept of paying more money to be stronger is audacious. It promotes more shitty games because the game can be bad, so we’ll just make stronger characters to make up for it. Kind of like how sfxt mechanics are so bad, they just give you gems to try to override the shit factor it has.
DLC should be aesthetics. DLC groove bars, timer\clock, stages, you can even do a DLC costume kit. Make people pay separately for things for their characters to look different. Like 4$ for 50 hats or 4$ for 50 types of shoes. You can even make audio DLC to change character sound effects. DLC character select screen etc… DLC is fine but it should never affect the game.
SG is the exception. Its not a 60$ game trying to rob you blind by spending more money. If your game is full price, DLC characters suck ass. If your game is under 60$, DLC characters shouldn’t exceed 60$ total. That way you’re @ least paying for 1 game no matter what.
SG is 15$, they’re so far under the actual price of a game that DLC characters isn’t a bad idea as long as it doesn’t surpass 60$. WTF is wrong you ticktockclock oh sorry, your name is haceme now got it. Its only when the game is 60$ and they start charging for DLC characters that it has become a problem. Now you’re surpassing the price of 1 game.
you call it paying for characters w\o buying a new disc. Capcom calls it the ability to scam the market montly if not weekly.
its something that is a dual edged sword. It can help and hurt the community and judging by how capcom wants people to pay for gems that give you auto block, auto tech and no chip damage, they will surely do the same thing with DLC characters. Give me 10$, here is your super powered character! Next time, 15$ because this character is so much better than the previous ones! you guys will love it!!! and now you’ve just reached the pokemon level of fighters, gotta catch them all!
negating the process entirely prevents that shit loop from happening. yes, DLC characters can expand a games lifespan but the companies will NEVER use it for that. Their goal is to make money, not make the best game possible. Its Scamcom, not wemakegoodgamescom
umvc3 could of been an update through xbl and like 30$ instead of buying it for 40$ in the store, yes completely agree but the door you leave open for DLC characters isn’t one you want to have open. They will undoubtedly release god like characters like yun in sf4 for money. Now they can’t make these characters bad because who the fuck would buy them? so DLC will be reserved for good characters, the better the character the more money they stand to make. So now you’re paying for high mid op tier characters as DLC…essentially buying a deck
the reasons players want it are true the genre, the reasons companies want to do it is to scam more money. While its the same thing, 2 entirely different goals.