I’m honestly totally okay with it being an essential weakening of throws, you can work that out by adjusting the base damage as appropriate. I think under the 3S system throw breaks all too often come down to ‘I was going for a throw too!’ and don’t actually come down to reads that often. I personally am not too big on throw breaks anyways, especially not in 2d games, but think that softening can be an important part of making the person losing feel like they can do something while they’re being beat, which is actually a fairly useful thing to keep people engaged in the game and not unduly frustrated… and it does it without having too much impact on how the game actually plays. You just balance the throws from the assumption that they’re gonna be teched.
You’re right though, you probably have to take* 2 *button throws or softening, not both… although as I say that, I remember that SC5 has button input throws and a system that’s essentially throw softening (Its different throw input/break system changes how it works too tho’).
@Ki Shiima: We were talking about serious innovation a few pages back, honestly at this point I think you’d kind of end up with a bastard child that would appeal to nobody.
people have too much choice, we play games to express ourselves and practice hand eye coordination and memory skills. let the artists make the art, the public are full of shit.
I would love it if developers had an open forum to get feedback directly from the community on things they way and then budget around the most sought after features.
Games are getting more expensive to make but game costs the same to us. So there must be some method for them to plan out good profit margins.
I don’t like DLC characters, but I like DLC costumes and stuff because they are optional, cosmetic, and don’t feel mandatory like the optional characters.
These games, while I’m cool with them trying whatever they can to bring in new players, needs better tutorials and teaching methods. Trials don’t teach enough to newbies, and it serves very little purpose.
Skullgirls got it right. I’d like to see more simulated tutorials and basics like that.
Hell, code in the entire Domination 101 articles to every game.
Gamers making games is the present. Every designer I’ve met is an avid gamer, and most of us are on the “hopeless obsessive” end of the Gamer Geek scale.
Yeah I’m not really a skull girls fan. I don’t feel the game play is really as great as people praise, it just has a lot of fan service. But their presentation is really good off the bat. Future games should take note and step it up. If an indie studio cab pull it off, big developers can too. Their bosses need to take notice. It’s not just about the money.
And you’ll hear me very loudly when persona 4 arena drops. People should seriously give it a chance when it comes out. Hella value and homage in the atlus and ASW universe.
part1 is basically more tutorials, I’m not against that but it doesn’t solve anything. The problem currently is that there are base problems in how the games are made. A streaming video clip won’t change that fact.
part 2… user generated scenarios? Really? That works better for some genres than for others. I think the goal has to be to make the game more uniformly enjoyable, not to allow text bubbles made entirely out of strings of racial slurs and obscenities followed by ‘you must win this match with a jab fireball!’
Honstly I kind of shut down when they get going, its kind of like the GGPO advocates. They totally have a point, but its at the point where you just ignore the madness.
I want to pose a question to this thread in regards to the topic: How Could Fighting Games Change for the Better? So for the better…did Skullgirls, King of Fighters XIII, SF AE get it right for the better? Because people highly respect those games, SF X Tekken is simple but people really hate that game. What whould validate “better” I’m seeing mad debates but not a bottom line. Thanks for any replies in advance.
Skullgirls has some clever solutions to ongoing problems (read IPS and the tutorials are cute), but also had a niche style and is criminally underfeatured.
SF4 is really really solid at its base (for all the bitching) but falls into the capcom cheap gimmicks trap. I don’t think they even understand the word ‘elegant’.
KOF… I dunno, its a really sharp little game. In my opinion the drive bar is a letdown, a capcom-style ‘we need something flashy’ trick, but that could be personal taste.
skullgirls removed a lot of the BS problems capcom can’t seem to get right.
in umvc3, there are 1 button throws that can lead to 100% life and these throws are active in 1f. So instead of players using all their normals for air footsies, most people just mash jump h. It throws, tech throws and in most cases can be used as a fat ass option select like crossup\jumpins etc… 1 button throws fucking suck, they never work because in any game you put them in, they always lead to option selects.
throws in skullgirls are almost 100% perfect. The only thing I don’t like about the throw system is that you have to stand to tech a throw. In capcom games, crouch tech will forever be there. Its a problem in 3s, sf4, sfxt and the solution is all so simple. If you throw while crouching, your character does a force stand throw animation. Mike didn’t use this and his game forces you to stand to tech and that opens up free mind games which I don’t like. Still though, its way better than any throw system I tried from capcom
the removal of comeback mechanics was awesome. It doesn’t need to be there. It helps scrubs compete but when 2 pro’s get together, it gets fucking ugly. You can’t make a game designed for bad players because good players will end up using those tools and that shit fucks up the game heavily. Teach bad players how to play, don’t lower the quality.
all fighters get preferential treatment out the gate good or bad so I don’t know why people keep bringing that shit up about Mike Z’s game. Its why even though sf4\sfxt are very bland and horrible games, they’ve progressed to the point where they are. Its because the community simply absorbs bad Capcom games regardless of quality 99% of the time as long as its new. Its why we’re here talking about how to make the games better. If sf4\sfxt were games of a 3rd party indy developer while being that quality, you think they would sell well still? sf4 has shit online and outdated gameplay 2\3rd’s of the things it takes to create a good game simply aren’t there. You can bash the SG community all you want because that same argument can be made for Capcom fighters too and to so much more of a degree than you can for SG. SFxT is a hot fucking mess of fucked up ass engine mechanics and no philosophy. Yet, we’re supporting it because its a capcom game when there are probably 5 indy fighters better as a game that could be played @ EVO.
sf4 is terrible. Its slow, outdated because the system is from 1995, the balance is shit because they designed bad characters who can’t compete on purpose, the online is fucking awful. The game does nothing for me. There are so many indy fighters that are sooo much better as game overall.
Had to reply to you just because I agree so hard about OS throws. I honestly think they’re the biggest problem with MvC3, its really fucked up.
About Skullgirls, its level of fandom I think. All games get that new game love, but when the fans are really rabid you get annoyance and pushback. It’s human nature to react that way, really. Skullgirls gets it bad in that particular respect because it’s had these ultra-rabid fans for a year or more before its release. People are just tired of hearing about how great it is.
Edit: And I"ve said it before, but high damage is the best comeback mechanic.
The only company that needs to change is capcom. The past 3 games simply reward lesser players. Sf4 = getting beat up? Heres a free 50% comeback mechanic. Umvc3 = the more you lose, the longer your comeback lasts. Sfxt = the game will play defense for you.
Vf, kof, bb are still doing it right. Better palyer wins.
Capcom blind fandom is more of a problem. @ least with skullgirls, its fandom for a pretty deep game. Really technical, god like net code and NO bs comeback mechanics. By being fanatical about a game like that, it will turn developers heads every so slightly. Those are actually good reasons to like that game.
when the forums get Capcom fandom over bad net code, terrible game design, awful balance on purpose, the capcom fanboys fuck up the whole scene. It then promotes bad net code, terrible game design and awful balance on purpose. Its why the last 3 releases from Capcom for fighters have been “bad” games IMO. They know they can release trash and have so many suckers still buy it.
I’d rather have people be fanatical about a game that cares about being a good game than a company that is just willing to shit anything out and sell it for 60$, then find a way to DLC you to death so you can become the best tourney player of arr time with pay to win gems. People are advocating the use of gems because of the way the game is playing out, is that the fandom you want? turn fighters into a BS scam card game?
