Why does it matter that it has easy inputs and no other factors? It just has to be a factor. Don’t you think?
.
I was mentioning tutorials cause fighting games are coming out really fast nowadays. I’ve figured out myself in the past. But some assistance nowadays would be cool! I’m just talkin about a kick start on the learning process. I always play my own way in the end. I’m talkin strategy “guide” not rule book. And not flow chart.
Edit!
On second thought… I think I’m feelin just goin at a game with my own figure it out ways again… I always figure my own stuff out. But I’ve been slacking. (though I don’t watch much YouTube tutorials either). I can only blame me for not keepin up with games. I need to sit my ass down and have some quality time with these games! Maby I got to focused on winning and not getting beat up while learning. Imma get back to just goin at it!
This is just my opinion, but I think that Soul Calibur II nailed it when it came to appealing to both casuals and hardcore gamers. Why do I say that? Because for one thing, with the way Soul Calibur works, you can mash buttons on the controller and the character will oftentimes perform a cool-looking move. I think that a lot of casual gamers enjoy being able to do cool stuff without putting much effort in. And Soul Calibur II seemed to excel at that. And while it may seem that being able to perform these moves by just mashing buttons would make the game scrub friendly, I’ve noticed (at least in my experience) that a lot of those moves either have really slow start-up, or are very unsafe. So there is still that skill barrier. Plus, there are hundreds of moves to memorize for each character, hundreds of moves to experiment with and see what beats what. Plenty of time for more hardcore players to spend practicing in training mode to try and get better with each character. And then there’s the whole parrying aspect of the game. Casual gamers probably won’t care about this system, but I think it’s this system that really helps pro players still be able to beat the more casual players who just mash buttons. Since with the parry system, oftentimes you can predict a button-masher’s next move, parry it and then retaliate with a high-damaging move/combo. Plus, there aren’t any DPs in Soul Calibur II, so casual players can’t necessarily mash themselves out of a bad situation.
And of course, there’s the expansive single-player campaign, hundreds of different weapons to collect, bunch of unlockables…
sigh Soul Calibur II had everything. Sometimes I wish that Soul Calibur V was a copy and paste of Soul Calibur II with online play and character customization thrown in for good measure…but they had to add in mashable, invincible super moves to soul calibur instead…sigh
Hehehehehehe. Ehrgeiz was cool. I’d like to see an awsomer version made with today’s capabilities n graphics n stuff! And hey! Does this footage mean people at some point played the game seriously like that? (back then with no online play…I played any fighter to beat my friends n family up… Like power stone one! I wasnt digging power stone 2. I couldn’t totally control my kicks in the air.) that was a long time ago so don’t freak out on me people who may read this!.. But can you play power stone like that? I’d like to try and apply my new fighting game logic to it! (I’m soooo off topic now does this normally happen? I’m not usually his active on forums)
Except I believe Soul Cal II was broken in high level play. People just tend to look at it with rose tinted glasses (I believe either Jaxel or Hates wrote an article on this on 8WR).
DPs make me cry at night. (though i just punish DPers off the face of the earth. XD) I still always played to be awsome, but back in the offline play days of sc2 and stuff. I also had to be a casual player. I totally enjoyed unlockables and single player campaigns and stuff. But now that we have online, I do just that. Casuals need fun offline stuff! Maby! Casuals should get to team up online in campaign modes!!!
Soulcalibur 2 broke over time, as players figured out all the gaps and holes in the engine (specifically 2G cancelling, which totally broke the game).
The fact that a sequel came out about the same time as they were discovering this pretty much sealed its fate.
Soul2 is a pretty unique game, imo, in that knowing too much about the game actually ruins its fun.
No it is not. There are other games that could fit into that criteria. The difference is that most of the time, people don’t look at those through rose tinted glasses.
Well what are other examples of that? It would be an interesting place to take the discussion.
Edit: And ALL the good old games get a lot of nostalgia credit. Soulcalibur is no different than any Capcom game in that regard.
Alot of old games that aren’t consdered classics anymore could count.
CvS1 (seems like fun until you run into Ratio-4 Nakoruru)
MSHvSF (a versus game with no infinites? Oh it’s boring as hell at high levels and we found infinites anyway.)
I’ve also seen people wax nostalgic over MvC1 saying that it’s more balanced than 2, when in reality it’s arguably even more broken thanks to Variable Cross shenanigans.
MvC1 war machine
ha YAH ha YAH YAH YAH YAH YAAH YAH ha heh YAH YAH YAH YAH YAH YAH YAH YAH YAH YAH YAH ha heh YAH YAH YAH YAH *death
MSHvSF I’d say specifically doesn’t count under that specific thing, its not like people all of a sudden said ‘now that we’re really skilled we don’t know infinites!’ It seems pretty clear from the start that the combo system is more closed out.
Similarly, CvS is a balance thing, almost all games get that (although its strangely considered okay in some games, and not in others). (Big example being how Hilde and to a lesser Degree Algol killed SC4)
Soulcalibur 1 and 2 (both had it) is unusual in that a specific aspect/bug of the engine essentially ruined the game for high level play. The only gamechanging discovery I can think of off hand that’s on the same level is roll-cancelling in CvS2, but of course that’s a bit different because there are STILL massive debates about whether that improved or hurt the game.
Hilde and Algol were never truly ban worthy in the same way ST Akuma was (based on what people have written about them, they were at worse 3S Chun/Yun tier).
Also, the question wasn’t over finding a single bug, it was about a game being shittier the more you know about it at high levels.
I specifically didn’t bring up Chun/Yun, because its a touchy subject for people. It certainly occurred to me though! 
Let me rephrase what I was thinking though, since we’re not quite on the same page.
Soulcalibur 1/2 in my opinion largely improved as you got better at the game, up to the point that 2G was discovered, which ruined it. It’s unusual in that it was such a specific and identifiable point that brought everything crashing down.
In comparison MSHvSF was clearly different than XvSF from the start, its not like people discovered discovered it treated combos differently late in its (short) life.
In a similar way, tiers are tiers, but 4-Nak didn’t ruin CvS1 any more than Chun Li ruined 3S or MSS (insert God-tier team of choice) ruined MvC2. I mentioned algol/hilde not because they’re more unfair than other god tiers, but rather because they clearly killed the game. Between their dominance and the TO drama they caused, there was absolutely no question.
MvC2 was never ruined.
And dominance + TO drama are never valid reasons for banning.
I’m not saying MvC2 was ruined though, any more than CvS1 was ruined or SC4 or 3S was ruined. I was trying to show that severe balance issues happen in all kinds of games, and are different than a game-breaking engine discovery. SC4 was killed, which is a little different, but which I always find interesting. I arguably shouldn’t have brought it up though, it really does kind of cloud the issue ><
That’s their problem for having a community that couldn’t deal what should have been non-issues.
RE: Soul Calibur 2
I’m glad we’re completely ignoring step-G.
There was debate about 2G. It’s not like someone discovered 2G and then everyone else said “well, fuck this game then.”
I’m taking the long term hindsight position on the subject… with hindsight it’s clear that was the beginning of the end of the game. It’s my impression that step-G developed and became more important largely *because *they changed the system and removed 2G (not that it didn’t exist before).
I had Idlemind give me a really long lecture on the subject at one point, it was pretty interesting 
And I think I've realized the major disconnect in this thread, its the difference between *should* and *does*. It doesn't matter whether people should or shouldn't care about, say graphics or single player content or whatever, the fact of the matter is that **people do care**. It's reality vs morals, basically.I really wish whenever a thread like this pops up the OP would just call the thread “How could CAPCOM fighting games change for the better” or "“Risk and reward for CAPCOM fighters?” “Are CAPCOM fighters dying?” and etcetera.
FFS the genre is at it’s peak right now and it’s not going anywhere any time soon. Now, if Capcom continues to go in the direction it has been going than that’s another topic of discussion. MK10 is coming out in 2013 (hopefully they get the netcode right), that Playstation Smash Bros game is being designed for competitive play (hopefully) KOF13 was a big cult hit and hopefully a 14 or Garou 2 comes out instead of more Hentai games from SNKP. Sega is not going to abandon Virtua Fighter, it’s huge in Asia, a VF 6 will come out when the Market recovers.
Capcom is so far doing a really good job at continually shooting themselves in the foot and I think pretty much everyone can agree with that one way or another.