its silly to you because it totally shits all over your graphics argument
I’m giving you an example of how a game with bare minimum in graphics is better and more fun to play than a game with god like graphics comparatively. Thus, proving that great graphics aren’t needed in a good game. Puzzle games are all game play so the graphics don’t get much treatment. What ends up happening is that if its done right, the graphics don’t even matter as long as they’re good representations of whats going on like a 2d shit drawn c.a from kof 98 or a c.lk\c.lp from sfxt. One form is ugly and crappy, the other is nice and crisp but neither have an affect on the quality of the game.
whats the point when sfxt looks better than kof 98 but plays worse? what has graphics done @ that point other than fuck the game up from a designing perspective? you’ve wasted time and money, created an inferior game but hey, @ least it looks nice. I’m sure that will be the reason why the game will be around for 10+years…
Well that is, of course just silly. you’re comparing submarines and windmills, and with about the same level of validity.
As to your last point, it moves copies. And again… you have this weird idea you express there that the game looking better made it play worse. That’s absolutely, bizarrely, absurd.
And let me make it absolutely clear. If there’s a brand new game with great mechanics and stick figure graphics, you’ll only get a tiny group playing it. A ton of people will talk about how great it is, but they won’t actually be playing the game. This comes down to they myths the FGC likes to tell about itself vs the reality of how people act.
We have to get over the myths, or we’re dead in the water.
Except YOU acted as if someone here said graphics were more important than gameplay, which no one said. What was said however, was some bs about how graphics just aren’t important, which is flagrantly false. As someone said on a previous page, they’re called VIDEO games for a reason. Seriously, wtf is this shit?
“The graphic part can go becuase some people honestly don’t care as long as it holds to thier bare minimum standard of graphics.”
So because some vocal minority doesn’t care, the graphic part can go? What else “can go”? Should we axe music from fighting games too, since that’s money being taken away from the gameplay? I mean, why have high quality music when we can have midi chiptunes instead, and just poor all the money into gameplay?
What you guys don’t seem to get through your head, is the shit is entirely unrelated. Unless the company is so stupid that they pay the graphics guys way way more than the people coding the damn game; there is no correlation between resources spent on graphic causing gameplay to falter. Maybe these companies ought to fucking get on the asses of the people who code these fucking shit games, since that’s obviously where the problem lies. I highly doubt that the guys doing the 3d models are somehow influencing the guys doing the coding; wtf are they doing, teasing them til they get low self esteem then code the game poorly as revenge? Come on now.
Wanna know why netcode is ass? Because these fucking Japanese companies don’t do their damn research and instead of swallowing their pride and looking at what modern shooters and other Western games here with great netcode are doing, they’d rather do the same shit over and over again then act shocked when it doesn’t work. Seriously, how the fuck is it that I can play games like BF3 or fucking TERA with like no fucking lag at all, games that have better and way more high end graphics than ANY fighting game ever made; yet a genre of games with mostly 2 fucking low poly characters in a fucking tiny ass scenery that usually has barely any animation or shit going on in the bg always has massive lag issues? And I know someone is gonna say “well, fighters require precise framerates and those other games don’t”, still doesn’t account for those games having far less lag issues than fighting games do. Fucking sad when that pos looking SF4 has lag yet fucking BF3 didn’t give me any lag, fucking amazing.
Also graphics pleases the eye more than “2 seconds”, again if graphics didn’t mean anything, people wouldn’t be bitching about how SFxTekken looks like fucking vomit with bright ass shit neon colors blinding people and hurting their eyes. Both graphics and artstyle matter. Same people say this bs about “oh I don’t care how a fighter looks, all I see is hitboxes”, yet nobody wants to play Arcana Heart, due to how the GAME FUCKING LOOKS. Even J Wong won’t play it because of that, and he’s supposed to be some ultra hardcore fighter fan. That says a LOT about how bullshit these arguments are. Graphics and aesthetics don’t matter, until you really don’t like how it looks, then suddenly it does.
you have this weird idea you express here that the game looking better made it play worse. That’s absolutely, bizarrely, absurd.
Just to be clear, you cannot brute force game design. It doesn’t work that way… it takes talent and knowledge more than it takes effort.
PS: To the first part, a comparison isn’t good just because you assert it is. Comparing Tetris to a fighting game is terrible on a whole multitude of levels.
Except this is false, because unless the company is retarded, the guy working on 3d models isn’t being paid more or that much more than the guy coding the game. Meaning the company should be staying on that guy’s ass to make sure he’s doing his damn job. If the reverse were true I’d expect the game, if the guy coding the game is doing his job, wtf is the 3d modeler guy’s excuse if he shits out bad looking models and textures? Unless the pay discrepancy is huge, there is no reason for either side to be putting out shitty work. A game having good graphics doesn’t make it shit, a game having a poor/lazy ass coder makes it shit.
I don’t think entertaining the notion of companies spending less time/money on graphics is realistic when casual gamers drive sales. What’s the point when it costs so much to get a game out on console(especially on disc) that getting panned by casuals means whoever made the game is hundreds of thousands of dollars in the red? It’s taking an unneeded risk.
You’d need one of the following:
[LIST]
[]A group that’s willing to make the game for free
[]A publisher who doesn’t care about the risk of skimping on graphics when footing the development bill
[*]Someone funding the entire game out of pocket, who also doesn’t care about sales
[/LIST]
Even Skullgirls, which is about as much of a successful indie attempt at getting core players and casuals in there as a FG as there ever has been, dropped a lot of time and money into making high-resolution traditional animations, and it even has proprietary tech for 2D no other game has.
Graphics are just a necessity. Even if you assume that skimping on that will make gameplay better, it will likely just mean that you will get your devoted community for the title–at the cost of making sure the devs who made the game don’t get to make any more games.
The irony in all this is Skullgirls has better graphics objectively than SFxTekken, since it takes more work drawing and animating every single one of those hd sprites/drawings than it does to make a 3d model, slap textures on and animate with rigger programs. 3d modeling takes hard work too, but 2d is a whole other story.
Also to take this further, if graphics weren’t necessary, then we’d all be playing games with nes graphics. Look at Sonic the Hedgehog, that game had better graphics than the games that preceded it(such as Mario), and it had solid gameplay. The graphics being better than an nes game didn’t make the game worse, and resources didn’t get “wasted” to make it look good. Sega didn’t pay the guy drawing the sprites tons of money then paid the programmers in peanuts. While the argument now would be that 3d games now cost a lot more money to make(which is true), it would also cost more money to program/code these games as well. The guys behind say, Call of Duty aren’t paying the 3d modelers millions of dollars then giving the coders like 30k, that’s absurd. Both sides get sizable sums of money to work with, it’s a matter of whether they do their damn job or fuck around. Same reason Warhammer Online had such a shitty launch with only 2 cities instead of the 6 promised; the 3d modelers didn’t get paid so much that it took away from the guys working on the core game, the guys working on the core of the game were too busy fucking around and wasting time and thus didn’t finish the content. Same applies to these fighters, how else would you explain the retarded glitches prevalent in SFxTekken, shit so simple even a fucking monkey mashing buttons could have found? What’s more likely, that the 3d modelers and artists got so much money and the poor coders barely got any so they had no choice but to half ass their job, or the coders were just lazy and didn’t give a fuck? It’s laziness, pure and simple.
I didn’t read the whole thing but I can’t help myself. I have to respond to what I’ve read so far. Controls havent changed all this time cause… Well “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. Commands aren’t over complicated. And if a move is complicated, it’s for a reason. And if a character is difficult to use, people will know it and it will be impressive to watch and you can feel satisfied knowin, "yeah, with all my practice I can play this character yeah!"
But it’s also stuff like, it takes longer to do a double quarter circle forward then just a quarter circle forward. Making it less easy to just do something like, ultra somebody on reaction. I don’t know what it is but it just works… 3d fighters have huge command lists and fighters got there circle motions and DPs. It just works.
If somebody can come up with some crazy innovative new control system for a fighting game that can be taken competitively(and casually). Then go ahead n blow my socks off.
I wouldn’t say SFxT has beefy graphics at all. A good chuck of game is recycled assets from SFIV right down to the background characters. All that was done differently was add a different filter that makes everything look worse. For that game, the only models that are new are the SF characters that didn’t appear in SFIV and most of the Tekken cast. Oh and spending time on guest characters no one wanted.
One more thing about accessibility from what I seem to be reading in some comments here. Sumthing about higher level players always abusing the more complex stuff.
You can’t make it tooooo accessible. I mean, if there’s absolutely no challenge and I never had to practice anything or see a move, tried to do it,but couldn’t, but some time later finally mastered it. It’s just taking away the whole rewarding feeling of practicing something that was difficult and mastering it. And if everything was easy, I’d never be impressed by people doing “amazing stuff”. Cause nothing is hard to execute. Might as well play chess. Good game. No execution. I don’t need to practice moving my pawn after I learned how it moves. (okay maby I’m bein a bit extreme but maby I lack better words!)
The question is:“How do we make fighting games better”
NOT how do we sell more, how do we make the community expand, or how do we make sure a game gets more publicity.
In another thread, your point would be PERFECTLY valid, but here, it’s just off topic.
To be honest, the second we started debating “accessibility can make a fighting game better” to “better graphics make the game accessible”, we all went off topic.
One more thing! (sorry for replying so much but). What does it even mean to make a game more accessible? Does it mean to make the game easier to learn and play? Or is it to teach players how to play with tutorials n stuff? Maby it’s a bit of both but in the end, whoever these players are that we’re trying to make the game more accessible for need to just meet you half way and learn to play the game. Put some effort into it. Can’t just spoon feed and hand the “casual” player ( whoever they are) whatever it may be that it is they want. I don’t even know what it is. We talkin difficulty? Or fun for people who don’t wanna play competitively or at least for some challenge against other people. No matter what, other players are gonna find ways to beat you up if they just play better.i mean, is that accessability? To make it easier for players not willing to practice as much to beat the ones who do?
These thoughts only come to mind as a result of random replies I’ve read. I hope this reply wasn’t too long n boring.
I think, the only thing casual players need is fun stuff to do offline. Or a way to avoid "serious players"
Here’s what I think about super smash bros. 4 players free for all and items! = casual!
1 on 1 no items =. I wanna beat you up!!!
Imma shutup now.
One Moore thing! (uncle from Jackie chan)
Even though I think things were different back then. Street fighter alpha 3 style I think would be a good way to appeal to casuals. World tour mode and dramatic battle. I feel like they just didn’t go all the way with scramble battle. I liked goin through arcade mode jumping people back then.
Shutting up now… For real. I think I’m off topic now too. Blame other the replies I’ve read!
One moooooorrreee thiiiiinnnnngggg! I will directly answer the question, "how can fighting games change for the better?"
For me I say, and this kinda has to do with how fast fighters are coming out but. Fighters need more tutorials! Combos, strategy, and the basic flow of the game! (like the difference between blazblue flow and streetfighter flow!). The learning process needs to be easier and faster cause I can’t keep up with how fast fighting games are coming out nowadays! There’s a lot of em! And more to come!
Maby there should be an interactive ai so smart he can teach you how to play and train with you? (alright I’m bein Rediculous XD)
Maby in streetfighter 2912 edition?
Maby that’s not really a change to fighting games fighting games definently changed their speed of release dates! Anyone heard of “under night in birth”? It looks awsome!
I also bought skullgirls. I like it! But haven’t played much! Learning cuuuuurrrrvvves! I can throw down random combos and use any fighting game logic I have from other fighters though.
I feel like… Even if I say I will shutup… I’ll be back with another answer…maby the topic is too open? Or maby I should read the rest of the topic.( though I’m not sure it takes that many words to. Ate the point I think it’s trying to make) make understanding you points more accessible!!!
Maybe the discussion motivates people to take part!
Really tho’ its only that one guy, and I just assume that that’s just the ‘waifu anime pillow’ guy again, same as the “SEIROUSGAMER” last night who got all his posts deleted
. Huh? I’m confused. Visually appealing? And streetfighter has good graphics but looks bad to you? That doesn’t make any sense. It looks good to me. Soooo, it just doesn’t appeal… To you? I’m sorry I just thought that was funny… Man… This thread has a million different topics…
