For what it’s worth, the bouncer was a decent beat’em up for the start of the PS2’s life span so i’ll give it that…but yeah I’d wish more people knew the awesomeness which was Ehrgeiz. It’s sad when a game that old as so much stuff that games this age don’t have(in terms of content and mechanics wise…hell behind some of the stiff animations you’ll find some really quirky and funny stuff in there). But thats just one of many examples…
Edit: Ehrgeiz had some of the best min games…ever
I was addicted to the Console version’s RPG mode, too. I love random dungeon crawlers.
Ehrgeiz and Sonic The Fighters were two of my favorite “Wtf?” arcade fighters.
By accessibility features, I meant the gimmicks you were referring to. And apparently you really have no idea how Tekken functions at anything other than a basic level. Learning defense in Tekken is some of the hardest in any fighting game out right now. You can spend an entire day teaching someone how to get up properly, let alone how long it takes actually learning movement, how to poke, set up, punish, etc. And learning different matchups in Tekken takes a heck of a lot longer than learning matchups in other games, simply because of the wealth of tools at a character’s disposal. Look through some punishment guides for T6 on Tekken Zaibatsu, and you’ll see what I’m talking about. Here is an example of the Lars Punishment Guide I did.
http://www.tekkenzaibatsu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=121872
And in regards to this:
I’ve seen people pick up King of Fighters on a basic level in a short time as well and beat more experienced people (which great effort, of course, but just by being able to recognize the usefulness/power of a particular tactic and playing smartly).
That doesn’t go against what I said about KoF emphasizing fundamentals as one of its big factors. It’s not like MvC3 where you can pick up a controller, pick Wesker, XF3 on someone and mash your way through without learning anything (I do like MvC3 a lot, for the record).
My point is that you have to dedicate a lot of time to both of these games to get beyond a basic level (In MvC3, even the most basic stuff is getting results). Sure, on a basic level anyone can figure it out, but that’s where the buck stops. You know why the Tekken scene is so small now? Because of the low level of accessibility. Tekken 6’s practice mode has no tutorials or anything, you have to learn it all on your own, go read forums, or be in touch with people who have played Tekken for a while, etc.
There is only 1 Fighter imo that can top that though and it was on the Saturn too~ and thats because it had both of my favorite Sega fighters in 1 game. YES IM TALKING ABOUT FIGHERS MEGAMIX, AND YES HORNET WAS A PLAYABLE CHARACTER! THE FUCKING CAR FROM DAYTONA USA!
that is one of my all time greats right there~
LET’S GO AWAY~
DDDDAAAAAAAAAAAYYYTTTONNNAAAAA!
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I nostaglia-gasm everytime I see Daytona USA at Dave and Busters.
I think we kinda derailed this thread but…fuuuuck those games were fun…I like when shit was funny and outlandish like these old games…or when they tried to innovate stuff. Games like Ehrgeiz tried to innovate on a free running fighting game, and it was pretty damn cool. Fighting Vipers had Break attacks which in term broke the Armor off the characters bodies or knocked them out the ring when close to a wall, that kind of stuff was new then.
I mean sure SCIV-V has destruct-able armor too but doesn’t have the same charm or effect Fighting Vipers had. When DOA2 first brought in interactive danger zones, that was innovative, but they when alittle too far with random raptors in DOA4…trying to find a nice balance between things is harder then it sounds…some aesthetic changes like dirt or water effects go along way, games like VF5 and Tag2 do this as well…the thing is that how long will it take before we get to the point of MK9’s almost real time damage on character models similar to how it was in Art of Fighting 1…and that game is HELLA OLD. why is MK the only game thats going to that direction?
Edit: What happened to weapon fighters besides the soul series?..like Bishido blade o_O
sorry to go off on another tangent…
Per Tekken, you’re confusing accessibility with tactical decisions.
All of the (intended) things you do in Tekken are quite easy and accessible. You can learn to do all the things you need to do quickly and easily (noting that T6 falls down on this some with bounds).
At very high levels you get into ‘this can punish this can deal with this at this many frames’ but new players don’t need to do that at all.
That’s the beauty of a game like Tekken, it scales extremely well.
One of the very basic things of this thread has to be getting out of your headspace and thinking of games from a beginners level not from a competitive level.
Well with accessibility would have to right? thats kind of a no brainier, you know.
I mean we all start out rather wet behind the ears when learning a new game~
Exactly how is bound not easy, and how does it detract from T6 at all? It’s just a part of the combo system, which is really the only easy part of Tekken.
If you’re doing anything other than playing complete noobs, you have to know frames and punishment in order to play Tekken. I got into Tekken about 2 years ago, and I learned from people that had been playing since T5.0. You don’t start winning and getting results with Tekken, even at mid-level, until you have high level knowledge. Of course, I’m fine with this, that’s how games should be. Making a game for the beginner does not make your game better overall, it just makes it easier to pick up. Of course, there’s a fine line between what is necessary and unnecessary in terms of that, which SNK realized, and applied to KoFXIII. The way to make your game better in terms of accessibility is to make tutorials, have a good practice mode, a good netcode, release a guide made by top players (i.e. SCV and UMvC3), etc.
since we are dropping names of obscure and accesible games
Eretzvaju aka Evil Zone, i would kill for an hd re-release of the game, just revamp the graphics add online and you have a nice game for everyone to enjoy
You really didn’t understand anything I said. I find that amazing.
I don’t understand why everyone switches to defense mode when you try to discuss things with them here… You insult people, telling them they know nothing because they actually retain the ability to realize that every game has more layers and that the UNEDUCATED levels are actually the more important ones.
I get it, its hard to recall what it was like to not know everything about everything but some of us managed to retain our understanding of how beginners think at look at things – sometimes its because we were very recently beginners ourselves. Sometimes its because we know a lot of people who are far removed from advanced level thinking in fighters. Sometimes it just because we actually know how to teach and how to interest people in learning difficult things…
Either way, I can’t really understand the point where it clicks in your mind that it is absolutely necessary to talk to someone who, for the most part, agrees with you and was merely pointing out a significant distinction in a point you were making by telling them they know nothing about a subject like you actually know the breadth of their knowledge.
If this is the way people in the FGC are going to perpetually act and respond to casual conversation and discussion, then we’re never going to move forward.
As it stands, I’m done with this conversation. You enjoy arguing against yourself.
I actually need to have an ‘obscure games’ contest with you at some point, I think I could take you.
Edit the problem is its too easy to check so we’d both have to swear scouts honor to play it straight 
So, one bad line amongst a legit post where I was actually explaining caused you to assume all this. Okay then.
Welp, anyway, I understood it, I just don’t think Tekken or KoF is as accessible as SFxT or MvC3. I find the statement beyond absurd, especially if you have a good understanding of those games. So my bad; I could have put my point better, whatever. As I said though, when I mentioned “accessibility features”, I was referring to things like comeback mechanics, gems, etc. Gimmicks, as you put it. Closest thing Tekken has to that is Rage, but I digress.
And I do remember what it was like to be a beginner at Tekken in comparison to being a beginner at MvC3. Tekken was (and still is) a lot harder to learn, that’s all I’m saying. When I first started playing, both people that taught me Tekken said dozens of people they had attempted to teach had quit the game on them because it was simply too difficult to get into, and I should be prepared to go through similar phases. I would have paid $100 for Tekken 6 if Namco had included even half the stuff those two taught me over the course of a few months. I have even tried dozens of times to teach people Tekken, and only one person I know has actually had the drive to stick with it. Tekken 6 just isn’t beginner friendly, and I like to think that if actual time was spent on the features you addressed (training mode, tutorials, etc.) that do not exist in Tekken right now (and won’t until Tag 2), then it’d be way easier to say it’s accessible on a beginner level.
Except, still no.
Tekken and Soulcalibur (to choose 2) can be enjoyed at an absolute beginners level far beyond the games that you’re talking about here (especially the old ones).
People have hellish amounts of fun exchanging death fists and blond bombshells. That’s base-level accessible fun, and just about anyone can start doing it in the first 5 minutes of play.
Then, as you play more people and go into higher levels, you have to learn more about the game and how you play it, with a significant bump when you first run into serious wakeup games. Except for that though it’s pretty linear.
You don’t get into the point where you actually need study until much much later, most of those things you can actually learn via play (which, as I’ve argued many times in this thread, is the superior way to do it)…
Except I’m not talking about accessible fun. I’m talking about accessible results, for beginners trying to get into taking a game seriously, such as attending tournaments and doing well there.
None of my friends that don’t like fighters, like Tekken. So I don’t understand the “it’s friendly at beginner levels” comments it gets. To them it’s clunky and slow. They prefer SF because it’s familiar. I tried getting them into the VF, but the defense mechanics were tough for them, since you have to multi-task with stick motions and button presses, as opposed to holding block or back to defend someone’s offense.
My experience is very different than yours then
Maybe its generational though, Tekken 2 was one of those must-haves for the PSX, so people are familiar/nostalgic/friendly to it from that.
Fun is where it starts, that’s the whole point.
If people don’t enjoy playing the game at a base level, it’s absolutely unreasonable to expect them to take the time to develop their play to that point.
And if a game is designed properly, you get both. That’s the goal, and the really good games achieve it easily.
Amend to that Xes…
Someone needs to make a rumble fighter style fighter. The footsies in that game is unique, it could be a new sub genre.
I prefer the Steve Porter Version 
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