:eek:
Not reading anything here, just letting you know your avatar is fuckin Godlike.
Holy shit…
Carry on people… Lolthisthread
I’m absolutely not saying all FGs should be like this, but I would like at least ONE FG to approach the genre from an User-Interface and Strategic point of view.
Basically following the philosophies:
“Our game is about strategy/thought/tactics, not about manual dexterity/muscle memory.”
“The perfect user interface is one that allows a player to effortlessly translate his intentions into in-game actions.”
“If a player intends to perform an action, but it didn’t come out for some reason, that’s a problem with our UI and needs to be fixed.”
It would be interesting to see traditional FG mechanics/gameplay combined with this approach to controls/UI. ST Remix had Sirlin advocating this philosophy, but he was shackled by the fact that the game was a remake and had to follow the original game to some extent.
I guess it might end up like Sarah in VF2 - all moves are just a single direction + some buttons, or a short sequence of buttons pressed together. Plus generous buffers. Putting aside crazy glitches like Senbon Punch and stuff.
Due to its history, FGs have been following a “martial arts” philosophy, where physical technique was considered an integral part of the experience. That’s fine, but I’d like to see a game or two that does something different.
so, you want a vs rpg?
This thread gives me a headache.
o_O what the fuck did I just read…
aside from wanting to eliminate what makes execution a important factor in fighting games in general…you say some shit like this? uhhg Idk where to start…
Listen many people had said this famous FGC quote already, “the match begins at the character select screen.” There is a reason why they said that, AE and UMVC3 are prime examples of this as the match-up it self is vary important, it’s a legit part of FG strategy, it’s goes hand and hand with the actual match. This is “strategy/thought/tactics” however it’s not thrown out there or force fed to you like some RPG.
I"The perfect user interface is one that allows a player to effortlessly translate his intentions into in-game actions."
We have this already, it’s called execution.
“If a player intends to perform an action, but it didn’t come out for some reason, that’s a problem with our UI and needs to be fixed.”
No… It means you need to practice, simple as that. This is coming from someone who has shitty execution mind you, It took me a long as time to learn Dante’s bold cancels and FADC Charge Buffering, however with practice, you can preform these actions with consistency, that’s what it means to level up your game. you take this away, you take away a huge part in learning a fighting game, you take away parts of the learning curve, and you take away why that action you performed is special. I’m not saying because you can do these things will make you a high level player, no that’s not my intention, however it is a part of the whole equation. Combine that with “solid fundamentals” and “experience” then you have something closer to the total package.
Yes.
(Also, quite literally - I’ve talked about a more competitive-oriented Demons/Dark Souls style game elsewhere before.)
RPGs series like Star Ocean, Tales, etc have interesting simplified FG systems that would be nice to see in a (casual?) FG or two.
Heck, even games like Devil May Cry have simple controls that might be nice in a FG.
I’m always amazed at how conservative people can be, when gamers are presumably young people who are theoretically more open minded than elderly folks.
You obviously have very set in stone notions of what consitutes a good game, to such a degree that you can’t even accept my suggestion that ONE game tries out an alternative model.
The only acceptable answer is, “Well, it’s not for me, but give it a shot, meh.”
Heck, we’ve seen an attempt at making a FG-style collectible card game, so there’s plenty of room for things in between that and a traditional FG.
FG Card game <–> FG Turn based menu game <–> FG with single-direction controls <–> Traditional FG.
The saddest and funniest thing about the modern game industry is that we have more games being made than ever before, and yet games are locked into their genre conventions more rigidly than ever before.
the only thing is that i wouldnt call it a fg per se, but it can be a interesting idea to try
as i have said before im open to experimentation, but, people asking for this kind of thing shouldnt try to pass it as a solution to a “problem” as some folks percieve execution and/or having to put some work in learning a game
So you want to make a board game?
Well, that’s the whole “smash is not a FG” sorta thing 
As for the solution/problem thing, well, I hope people won’t get that impression from MY post at least - don’t let the tone of the OP infect the perception of my post
I’m just saying it would be nice to see a game or two with the simple controls & mechanics of an action adventure / action RPG game, but the structure, character choice, and features of a proper FG.
We’ve seen games like Star Ocean 3 and Zone of Enders 2 having a rudimentary versus mode as a sort of easter egg, or Dark/Demon’s having unstructured open world PvP, but I’d like to see an attempt made to produce a more competition focused game around those sorts of mechanics.
I Don’t want my Fighting games to become RPG’s…simple as that, I play stuff like Dissidia, I like them on a casual level, playing that shit competitively is retarded beyond belief. It’s not about trying something new, it’s about taking away bare fundamentals of fighting games is what I have beef with.
Uh, for Capcom to invent a DeLorean, ride back in time a few years, and make SFIV 2D with no Ultras or Gems?
What part of, “I’m absolutely not saying all FGs should be like this” did you not understand?
Noone’s putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play this hypothetical new game. You’re free to stick with the traditional games, there will be plenty for you to choose from.
I personally don’t believe that FG-style controls / execution barriers are absolutely necessary for a combat versus game to be competitive. If we take a game like Demons/Dark Souls, it can be tournament worthy (there are already tournaments for it) if the developer has the intention to make it so, via proper features and balancing. Sadly noone has bridged the gap between genres - all the FG-ish RPGs are stuck in RPG land, and all the simplified FGs are stuck in FG land.
If you’re not interested you don’t need to comment.
Dissidia is about as close as your going to get to that…that game can be played turn based or not, the Point is…because of the simplicity and broken shit that game had, it pretty much ruined that idea before it left the ground, it’s fun casually but take it outside of that it gets real derpy(Exdeth all day).
Considering you want to make a game turn based, things like stats and stuff are going to be way more important then anything else…because their is no execution, factors like “luck” and shit play a huge factor and no one wants that really…and to be honest it would be boring as fuck to watch as well…This was something I wanted to get into about FG in general but having a game pleasing to watch by spectators is a important factor as well as it being fun/intuitive for the player.
Square made a FG once upon a time…no one knows why they wont make a sequel…
I’ve never played Dissidia before. But let’s pretend someone made a game like that, but were dedicated to making it competitively viable by proper balancing, fixing problems, etc. Would you say that it’s possible to get an interesting competitive game out of it? In a world where Smash and Pokemon have competitive scenes? Or is Dissidia impossibly broken on some fundamental level?
Anyways, I didn’t say I wanted a turn based game (i mentioned it as part of the spectrum of possible games.) Like I said, something like VF2 Sarah - where all the moves are single-direction + buttons, or short sequences of buttons.
Or Devil May Cry. Or Tales of Graces. Or Star Ocean 3. Or Dark/Demon’s Souls. All of these games have friendly user interfaces designed to be as usuable as possible rather than deliberately getting in your way.
Dissidia at it’s core isn’t bad but because it’s like Gundam next and need 2 monitors to avoid splitscreen…it doesn’t make for a exciting game in the least. but if the company diligently fixes bugs and do routine balance patches then that would help alot…
Smash is compeitive because of it’s own merits and it’s community putting in back breaking effort too, but Pokemon…aside from people hacking to breed “perfect” pokemon all that shit is a huge random numbers simulator to be honest…their is very little strategy in that game said from a few scenarios…especially double battles…
Action game controls are simple but a tad too simple for a fighting game, though tales of VS uses it’s battle system at it’s base, what help that game was it was similar to smash in alot of ways. It’s hard to explain why too simple of controls can be a problem… someone like Xes or Hetacom could explain that into greater detail…
zeech; what you’re talking about is the same thing I was thinking about when I mentioned Guild Wars 2 earlier…
There are things that genre fans believe have to be part of fighting games, or it’ll be dumbed down, not work, etc.
People won’t believe differently until there’s a genre-smashing title that shows how it can be.
The sad thing is, FGs are one of the hardest genres for an indy developer to get into, due to the large amount of animations required. It’s different from 2D platformers where you can focus on mechanics, we’ve seen a lot of interesting stuff done with platformers in the indy scene. Ah well.
[media=youtube]jYh9ZanoLGc[/media]
This is good match video showing how Ehrgeiz(that old Square FG) was kinda ahead of it’s time and if it was done now an days…it would be relatively popular(besides in having FF characters in it). If you break this game down to it’s core it has alot of basic and strong fundamentals for a fighting game…
False on both accounts…
King of Fighters drastically simplified its mechanics in more recent editions and Tekken as a whole is built on the frame work of being completely accessible to people who have no idea what they are doing – its the same with Soulcalibur. I can hand someone who’s never played Soulcalibur a controller and they can figure out how to play on a basic level within a matter minutes, if not seconds, after the timer goes. I’ve seen people pick up King of Fighters on a basic level in a short time as well and beat more experienced people (which great effort, of course, but just by being able to recognize the usefulness/power of a particular tactic and playing smartly).
-THAT- is accessibility. King of Fighters, Tekken, Soulcalibur, Dead or Alive, and Virtua Fighter all have a very high amount of accessibility – more so than even Marvel 3 and SFxT.
The issue with Capcom is that they go for gimmicks, not that they try to make their games more accessible. Why add gems when you could just add better tutorials or even increase the throw tech window? Why add auto block instead of releasing tutorials that explain how to properly guard in all situations?
Why make 1-2 frame links without releasing some method of training people to do them properly? Hell, Tekken and Soulcalibur both have a Training Mode submode that allows you to set the computer to train you to block and test the safeness of your attacks as well as teach proper evasion. Why not in SFxT?
There’s nothing wrong with the addition of features that allow the game to be more accessible – that’s how you welcome new players. The problem is Capcom tries to do these things in the most gimmicky, counter intuitive and least productive manner possible.
Surprised anyone remembers Enhrgeiz. Loved that game – they killed its chances of becoming a series when they revamped and ruined the gameplay system in The Bouncer.
I honestly remember thinking Ergheiz had some serious problems.
Still, it was a free motion game, and that’s one of the few interesting places left for fighting games to go without breaking TOO many rules.