Hori HRAP V4 announced... compatible with PS3 AND PS4

Tech Talk
41

Kind of unfair in one respect…

Hori HAS held over joystick case designs between the consoles before.
Collectors and eye-candy people are the ones that care about new style case models… for the rest of us, as long as something’s reliable and works and is the right price, that’s what is most important.

Costs to the consumer can definitely be held down by reusing older case styles. Honestly, the molds for the HRAP V3 aren’t even 5 years old now and I’ve heard of toy molds being used for decades!

The HRAP 3 (PS3 generation) and HRAP EX counterparts used the same style joystick case that the HRAP 1 and 2 (BOTH PS2 generation) used. The original HRAP case was in production between 2004 and spring quarter 2010 before it was discontinued. The main visual differences between HRAP’s of generations 1-3 were the faceplates and button layouts.

The HRAP V3/VX (now HRAP V4) style case debuted in late 2009 in Japan. It was released spring quarter 2010 in the US. There’s been one variant that had an Astrocade style layout for the buttons (the VF 5 HRAP V3/VX which was limited production; US and Japan only) but the rest of the HRAP V3/VX joysticks have had Viewlix layouts with the later Kai series model increasing the space between the joystick and buttons in addition to borrowing the non-slip base plastic concept from the Qanba joystick line.

I think it’s a safe bet that the HRAP N3/NX will be followed by an HRAP N4/NX(1?) style case. I would have preferred the HRAP N3 case (introduced as the Hori Soul Calibur V joystick in 2012) be reused myself but I see why Hori chose to introduce the HRAP V3 style to the PS4 first…

I don’t think the Fighting Edge case design will necessarily die with the last generation of consoles, either. I suspect the FE and VLX case-styles will probably be reintroduced later for the new consoles. Nothing novel there… For over a year, Mad Catz was also selling multiple case style joysticks with the TE-S, Fight Stick VS, Brawl Stick, AND FightStick Pro being offered at the same time. They let their inventory run dry last fall with the exception of the K-stick line and FightStick Pro because everybody got understandably anxious about the new console launches last year and didn’t want to be stuck with a bunch of unsold inventory for the LAST generation consoles. I noticed the same thing happened with Hori’s non-HRAP V3/VX Kai stocks, too.
Hori is understandably playing it safe with the HRAP V4 model and dual-console support.

As it is, if you’ve been reading elsewhere, software developers aren’t even that sure that the new generation of consoles are going to do that well. The Wii U has been a sales dud and the costs of software development for all the new consoles is generally much higher than before. It’s going to be very tough for anybody to make much money off the new machines and reports from last generation were that in general EVERYBODY was having a hard time making money off those machines no matter who you were developing for!

Things joystick-wise are going to (re)play out just like they did for the last generation of consoles. People will buy adapters for older model joysticks they don’t want to mod (USB adapters for PS2-era or earlier joysticks), they’ll gut older joystick cases and install better quality arcade parts and third party PCB’s, or they’ll padhack just like what’s happening already for current PS4 and XBox One owners. OR, for collectors and new stick owners, they’ll wait and buy what Hori and Mad Catz (and presumably Qanba later on) will have to offer over the next year. The HRAP V4 is just the first in the opening salvo of what many of us predicted last year…

42

Is this going to be a bluetooth wireless joystick???

I have the hori wireless WRAP and love it. Could not imagine going back to wired for home play!

If it’s wireless I might import it in. Otherwise nah…

43

I’m not gonna say you’re wrong for wanting that because it’s a perfectly legitimate want, but boy have I never heard anyone request it.

44

The HRAP V4 is NOT wireless… Hori would have said it was wireless when the joystick was announced recently. The other wireless HRAP’s have had a “WRAP” or “W-RAP” designation.

Enjoy wireless at home… they’re not going to allow Bluetooth wireless at tournaments because of all the potential headaches there. There’s really no benefit to a controller being wireless unless you’re sitting more than 10-12 feet away from a 60" TV set and console.

Making Sony controllers Bluetooth/wireless has only increased the costs for end-users. Going from PS2 to PS3 era Dual Shock increased prices an average of $25-$30 (for rechargeable batteries). Unless you really do have to sit over 10 feet away from a TV set, I’ve never seen an advantage to wireless controllers other than you won’t get cables twisted up or provide another piece of cable for the family dog or cat to chew on… Easiest, cheapest solution to that is to unplug controllers and lock 'em up where pets won’t get at them OR dumber family members and friends won’t destroy the things through sheer negligence behind your back.

45

I once did a PS3 Sixaxis pad hack and boy was it nice to have a wireless stick… too bad it isn’t good for Xbox. LOL.

46

Yes it does feel good to have a wireless stick.

I don’t like messy wires!

My Hori WRAP even turns on my ps3 which then turns on my bravia tv so I can be super lazy and not get up to turn on the console!

I’m sure lots of people would like a wireless stick for home use.

In terms of lag, I don’t notice any, it’s just the same as a ps3 controller.

Anyways it’s good a ps4 stick is coming. I just hope there is a wireless one on its way soon and a street fighter game!

47

Does anyone think it’s strange that this isn’t mentioned on Hori’s own site. It’s also not up on amazon.co.jp yet.

I figure it’s a bit much for an elaborate April fools, and instead presume it’s just retailers getting hold of the information before Hori intended that information to get out. But, the V4 mark on the Joystick doesn’t look like it would be too hard to photoshop.

48

Dud, no one is going to waste their time on an April Fools mock-up of a Hori stick, let alone have it advertised on a site like PlayAsia.

As for it not being on their own site, well… this is Hori we’re talking about. A company that isn’t known for its logic.

49

Yeah it actually is up on Amazon.co.jp, as well as many other sites.

Amazon.co.jp
AmiAmi
Rakuten
Yahoo Shop.jp

If you want to poke around for it, best to use the Japanese spelling for the time being: リアルアーケードpro.V4 隼

Company websites just need to be slow to update, and they may just not post products on their site until they are actually released.

Side note: looks like AmiAmi is teh place for an importer to order. Stick at 12,600円 + EMS would land right about what PA is charging pre-shipping.

50

Finally, official word from Hori.

51

IF I could have given you +3 on the “Agree” tab, I would have!
I think the only Japanese arcade company less logical than Hori is probably Seimitsu at this point –
and it’s not by much more!

Regardless of what I think about the personal economics of a wireless PS4 joystick, it’ll probably happen when the time’s right.
It’ll probably be another LE release like the previous HRAP V3-W/HWRAP(?) V3 was last year.
50-50 on a US release like anything else LE from Hori is (unless Arcade Shock or Hori-USA decide there’s a market for it in the US).

Hori’s done enough short runs on special edition joysticks that they released through Amazon.jp and their own website in the past that I don’t think a run of 300-500 joysticks is that big a deal to them. The case mold’s paid for itself and apparently the PS4 controller PCB isn’t that much different from the PS3 controller PCB after all – going by some recent comments in the Aki shop thread…
I think the HRAP V4 release is motivated more by the fact that the PS4 just released in Japan recently and they want to tide over between the PS3 and PS4 transition in Japan (which will likely take longer than the US). Hori’s a Japanese company first and will cater to its homeland first. That’s their priority – US is next since that’s the next biggest market for arcade-style joysticks.

52

Does anybody know if this new release is the reason you can’t buy Hayabusa sticks from Hori presently? I just got a V3 SA and a Fighting Edge and I didn’t think the Kuro stick or buttons was that bad, not compared to the stock Hori buttons.

53

The joystick is called Hayabusa. The buttons are Kuro. I would think that they allocated enough for those before putting the rest up separately. It wouldn’t make sense from an inventory standpoint to pull from the same stock but Hori isn’t traditionally the smartest company though so Idk of anyone could really know for sure. It seems like they might have just sold well. More than one parts retailer may have expressed interest in them and they pulled some from the individual stock for bulk sale. Paradise Arcade Shop should have them available really soon. @armi0024‌ can shed more light on that.

54

What I want to know is if the PCB and top control panel can be transferred over to an N3/A3 casing.

55

d3V,

IF Hori kept the same style HRAP V case with minimal changes, I wouldn’t doubt that you could port the PCB between the HRAP V4 and earlier HRAP V3/VX releases. There’s probably been no interior changes for the PCB mounting or exterior changes for the cutout that the Turbo panel slides into.

As far as the HRAP N3 is concerned, the turbo button panel is completely different from the HRAP V3. The HRAP V3 Turbo panel (with Select, Home, and Turbo switches) is 7 inches long and 1 inch tall. The HRAP N3 panel is roughly 6.25 inches long and about 1.13-1.25 inches tall. The Turbo panels for these HRAP’s mount on opposite sides… on the HRAP N3, the Turbo panel is on the left; on the HRAP V3, the turbo panel is located on the right.

You could probably custom fit the HRAP V4 PCB onto the HRAP N3 case but you’d still have 1-inch shortage on the length of the PCB/Turbo panel hole cutout on the HRAP N3 faceplate and it would be 0.25 inches too tall for the HRAP V4 PCB. You’d have to pad it or fill in the space for a nice, flush fit after extending the faceplate cutout at least another inch. I’m guessing on the length of the HRAP V4 PCB but I think it’s a safe bet that Hori probably didn’t change the size of the PCB between the HRAP V3 and HRAP V4. That’s not the company’s way of doing things; they limited the HRAP 1-3 joystick changes to primarily faceplate differences in button layout and joystick mounting brackets. Even the HRAP-lite variants (American Tekken 5, anime- and game-licensed Japanese market variants) had the same plastic case as the mainline HRAP’s with the main differences being larger PCB’s with soldered pushbuttons and no Turbo cutout area on the faceplate. The plastic case for the the HRAP-lites still had the molding and internal support area for the HRAP 1-3 PCB’s. I can vouch for that because I’ve owned AND taken apart the HRAP 2 SA, HRAP 3, American Tekken 5 HRAP-lite joystick, and the Arcana Heart 2 joystick (HRAP-lite).

I’m personally waiting to see if Hori carries over either the Fighting Edge case or the HRAP N3 case for the PS4. I’m suspecting that at least the HRAP N3 will turn up again on the PS4 as the HRAP N4. The HRAP N3’s my favorite HRAP case right now and is the one I’d wait on. Hori’s already recycled one joystick case for the PS4; I don’t think they’re finished with the HRAP N3 mold, either… They did this previously with the PS3 with the carryover of the original style HRAP 1-2 cases as the HRAP 3/HRAP EX and with the budget-line PS2 Fight Sticks becoming Fight Stick 3’s. They discontinued the older-style HRAP’s and Fight Stick’s with the V-line cases in late 2009 and 2010. The HRAP N3 (debuted as Hori Soul Calibur V joystick) and Fighting Edge have only been around 2 years themselves… I think they’ll keep the HRAP V and HRAP N cases for as long as they did the original HRAP-style joystick case.

56

Haven’t had the chance to try an A3/N3 since no one seems to have them here. Do didn’t know the control panels weren’t interchangeable. So I guess my bedt choice woild be to padhack the new Hori pad and sticking it in an AX-SA case.

57

Well, I just pre-ordered this stick on AmiAmi and probably won’t turn back now. I’ll post pics and my thoughts on it when I get it.

I hope the Kuros are good buttons. I’m reading a lot of mixed reviews on them.

58

They’re good buttons is what I read from the reviews…

The thing is that they’re not the big improvement on either the Seimitsu or Sanwa buttons that many of us feel the Hayabusa was over the JLF and LS-joysticks. I wouldn’t replace Sanwa buttons with Kuro buttons unless I liked the plastic color better. It’s not a ‘feel’/performance issue at this point.
Right now, you can only buy Kuro’s in two colors which is a sticking point for people. You can get black in both the US and Japan but white only in Japan. It’s a limited selection and Hori’s easily capable of making them in different colors. Whether Hori will expand to more colors is a different story… I suspect Hori is only going to produce buttons in colors they know will sell (black, red, white – basics) but Hori could surprise us there. Hori’s in new territory with arcade parts and this is creating some headaches for end-users/modders that want more variety in colored buttons OR people who want to get their hands on just the white Kuro buttons and Hayabusa. The white buttons aren’t in the US and the Hayabusa is out-of-stock in the US at the moment.
It may be that Kuros actually DO last longer than Sanwa or Seimitsu buttons but I don’t know that anybody’s used them in a high-stress competitive environment long enough on the Fighting Edge joysticks out there… We may get a better idea on the wear factor/longevity from the arcades in Japan that are actually fitting cabinets out with Kuro and Hayabusa parts.
I would probably keep the Kuros if I had them in any of my joysticks at this point in time. It sounds like people just have to wear them down a bit to where they become more comfortable; many people aren’t used to this since the Sanwa buttons come feeling as they will and that’s pretty much the case for the majority of Seimitsu buttons as well.

59

Got an email from Amiami regarding payment for the V4. I guess they got them already? Anybody else pre-order the stick? I thought it was coming out late May (my bad if wrong).

60

Huh, I got nothing from them so far. Gonna go check my spam folder.

EDIT: I just received the e-mail about the payment too.