As described earlier, my LS-56 no throw mod worked with no further modifications. Here it is on the Hayabusa:
Image of the Seimitsu harness connected to the PCB. As you can see, it slips on perfect. The clip, which is not on JLF models, slips over the connector proper. Evidence of Seimitsu inspiration? Who knows.
question, does the Hayabusa fit JLF mounts? or does it need extenders to fit?
It seems to be that way, but I don’t have a JLF mounting plate to test.
Got it today. It bolted right on to the RAP NX. This model came with a JLF so it fits standard JLF mounts. I replaced an LS-56 with the Hayabusa and I really like it so far. The sound of the actuator on the gate is louder than a JLF or LS-56. Maybe its the harder Lexan. It makes a thud sound that is much less muffled than the LS-56 was in the same case. The NX is more hollow than a TE so levers always sound louder.
The switches are Matsushitas on my unit. They probably wont differ in this run, I expect. It needs to be a little stiffer IMO. It’s just barely stiffer than a stock JLF. In case anybody wonders, the Matsushita switches are just about as loud if not exactly the same as Omrons found on JLF levers. Not too loud. Not “silent”.
My favorite thing about it is the silky smoothness of the pivot. If its delrin on delrin it would make sense. It’s also lubed from the factory so it feels like butter.
Edit: If anyone has an LS-55 spring for me, holla.
I’ve already swapped out the switches mechanical parts (not the housing, didn’t feel like soldering) with ones from another Seimitsu stick because they’re slightly more tense. Added with the LS-55 spring, and it feels much better than stock. I just wish I could mount it in my custom stick, at the moment I can’t.
@iNENDOi Still have a JLF? Could you take a picture of the shaft, actuator, spring flange, and mounting plates and see if they’re interchangeable?
Yes they come in a really nice package. I ordered a bunch of them and the packing is so professional.
Couple of points but otherwise the joystick sounds good… I should be getting mine today!
Minor comments but a great write-up and post on this joystick —
A) I had to look at the pictures a few times to see where the mod was made to the joystick body to fit the levered switches…
You might want repost the picture with hi-lites on the areas you cut down. I seriously had to look 3 or 4 times to see the cuts. (What can you expect? It’s all black plastic! LOL)
Easy mod, yes! Great news…! Did you use a sanding barrel on the Dremel?
B) The LS-32 spring has a wider diameter than the JLF spring. The JLF spring basically “floats” inside the LS-32 spring. I’m fairly certain it’s the largest spring among what’s used for the LS-32/-40, LS-55, LS-56/-58, and JLF. I don’t have or use an LS-55 so I don’t know how that spring compares against the LS-56/-58 springs. The LS-56/-58 have probably the thinnest diameter springs between the LS- and JLF-series joysticks.
C) HOW did you get the original housing’s of the Hayabusa microswitches split apart? Did you use a small flat screwdriver? If it’s easier to just chuck the original switch insides and swap in the levered tabs after splitting the bodies open, I’d have done that, too. Who really loves soldering? I sure don’t!
It’s probably easier and cheaper to buy the LS-56 microswitches direct from a vendor like Mouser in the US for anybody considering the microswitch mod. It’s just a matter of getting the right vendor/part number (which I don’t know – I’d have to look it up). The only arcade parts vendor that would sell the LS-56 micro’s would be Akihabarashop.jp but they’re not as convenient for continental US unless you’re placing a decent size order…
UPDATE: I looked on Mouser.com which is where I found listings for the LS-32 microswitches… (I got those part numbers and Mouser’s name from another old SRK or shmups.com thread.) I found the EXACT microswitch that ships stock with the Hayabusa but cannot find a listing for the LS-56 switch. “AM516…” pops up right away but nothing for the other switch!
I guess they just don’t stock the LS-56 part, period…
I have to bust open a JLF tonight anyway. I’ll snap some pics.
I own the stick as well beastly! Great review brah
A) Yeah, my camera isn’t the best. Maybe I’ll highlight the mod so it’s easier to see. I also noticed the spacer on the actuator mod is a bit too lit, so I’ll have to update that one as well. Perferctionism. I used a round cutter similar to the sanding barrel, but instead of having an abrasive paper it’s a metal saw like part. It did the job super easy and at high speeds the Delrin held up, shavings everywhere and no melted plastic. Was really nice to only have to wash it and not cut a ton of melted plastic off the Dremel bit and off the body.
B) The LS-32 is only a tad wider than the stock Hayabusa spring, so I’m not sure if the Hayabusa spring is truly a JLF clone or not. The LS-32 spring kinda fits in there, and it works, but it doesn’t feel as good. Probably because it is much higher. The LS-32 spring also doesn’t really have enough tension anyway, which is why I pulled out the back up LS-55 spring I had. It’s a tad thinner diameter than the stock Hayabusa, a tad taller, about the same height as the LS-32 spring, but much more tense. Not quite as tense as the LS-56 though, probably on par with the LS-58 spring if not maybe a tad more tense. Either way, it fits all the stock parts perfectly. It actually feels pretty good with the tension but I don’t like the spring being taller, as that means more metal is at some point rubbing against itself and creating extra friction that a shorter, more tense spring would not create. The LS-56 spring fits the shaft but won’t work because it will be squished too much between the actuator and the spring flange, which the spring will rest on but not fit around, which is why it doesn’t work.
C) Oh, it’s really quite simple. Just use a small flat head screw driver, the type you use for electronics work, and pry open the switch shell. It’s easy to do and the parts do not pop out or fly away if you take the shell off. Then, you simply pull out the ground terminal and tension assembly, remove the copper tension plate, and replace the copper tension plate with one of higher actuation force like from a LS-40 or LS-56. Then you’d want the levers from the LS-56 switch to put into it. Yeah, you kinda have to cannibalize the LS-56 switches, but it’s simple to do and easier to put a drop in replacement of any brand on the LS-56 and use the ones you already have for the Hayabusa. No soldering needed, its much easier than soldering to swap the internals. Takes about 5 mins of work maybe. If you can find the same series as LS-32 you’ll want the ones with the short lever. Mouser lets you filter like that so that’s all you’d need.
I pulled this pic from slagcoin…
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/gumbyslide/springs.jpg
Top: Various HAPP/iL springs
Bottom (left to right): JLF, JLW, LS-32, LS-40, LS-33, LS-55, LS-56
Based on this picture and @Moonchilde 's descriptions it seems like JLF springs might just work. I’ll tear the 'Busa and a JLF apart and take pics tonight if all goes well.
Guys,
I got my Hayabusa today and took some pics of the parts. May post the pics later… (It’s a pain-in-the-ass to posts pics with bandwidth issues and website storage space so I make no promises on timeliness there.) I compared and contrasted with the LS-32(-01) and the JLF. I had spares available to “part out” and look at a few things…
The Mounting Plate. IF you line up the JLF TP-1 mounting plate with the Hayabusa, the holes are an exact match. I see no reason why you couldn’t swap back and forth between the mounting plates if you wanted to. The Hayabusa mounting plate fits perfectly over the JLF’s mount position… Now WHY you’d want to use a wider mounting plate in that case is beyond me! (I’d keep the Hayabusa MP screws. They’re better than the piece-of-shit screws Sanwa uses to install the JLF MP.)
I will admit I did NOT take off my TP-1 MP and test fit it on the Hayabusa because the mount screws are notorious for easily stripping even if you are as generally careful as I am – even with so-called “perfect fit” screwdrivers. The TP-1 screws are really made of way-too-soft metal. They are a pain-in-the-ass and the biggest recurring quality issue Sanwa has with the JLF’s. I overlaid the Hayabusa MP over the TP-1 and all the screw mounting holesmatch.
I did the same likewise for the RE: Mounting Plate Seimitsu uses for the LS-32 and LS-40. Reconfirms the viability of creating “universal mount” areas with flush rivets for the various joystick types. There are six mounting position holes that line up between the RE: MP and the Hayabusa MP… (That does NOT mean you can use an RE: MP with the Hayabusa. It just means you can drill common holes for rivets to hang the joysticks from the faceplate.) Of course, since the Hayabusa mounts exactly like the JLF it’s a moot issue…
+2 to Hori for NOT reinventing the Mounting Plate AND using screws that don’t get stripped by your screwdriver! The JLF Mounting Plate screws are notorious for that!
+3 for NOT developing a joystick with a PCB assembly so big that you have to remove it before installing the mounting plate! => huge, huge fault with the LS-32 and LS-40 joysticks that rears its ugly head every time you install those assemblies into a joystick case.
From what I can see, most of the shaft parts for the Hayabusa are an exact match for the JLF. Shaft thickness on top is the same, shaft and dust covers are interchangeable between the two joysticks, the spring is the same basically, the E-clip is identical except for the black paint, and the actuators looked identical to me. I wasn’t that interested in the pivot to be honest so somebody else can cover that… What I see here is generally a JLF clone in a different base but otherwise you could swap the JLF and Mad Catz TvC shaft assemblies with the Hayabusa and I don’t think you’d notice a difference! The improvements in the general JLF design are elsewhere within the base (V pivot area?) and microswitches if the microswitches are really more than generic…
The whole Hayabusa assembly stacks to the same height as the JLF. It’s only thicker where the the mounting plate and 5-prong adapter are concerned. The 5-prong adapter really is a lot more like an LS-32 prong than the JLF prong adapter.
Yes, the Hayabusa is sorta more tankbuster-ish than the JLF but still isn’t as bulky as the LS-32/-40 joysticks are. A lot of that illusion is because of the base design to deal with the microswitch choices and the slightly wider Hayabusa Mounting Plate.
BTW, my Hayabusa arrived with a bent prong. Easy fix – just took a small flathead screwdriver and bent it back into position. I used a spare Seimitsu harness to re-assure perfect alignment.
I must emphasize that the Hayabusa spring is a JLF spring clone. I don’t know about tension but gee they sure looked the same! I ended up doing a singular mod to my Hayabusa by placing the original spring within an LS-32 spring. Got about the tension that I wanted. The LS-32 spring is only SLIGHTLY thicker than the JLF/Hayabusa spring so you still have to screw the thinner spring (Hayabusa/JLF) within the larger spring.
Criticisms and Praise –
To sum up, I think this joystick is as good as the LS-32 or LS-40 but not necessarily better.
Nothing’s perfect… I’d give it an 8/10 at this point in time. I’m not losing sleep over having Seimitsu joysticks in the vast majority of my joystick cases and wouldn’t bother to replace them with this model. It’s just simply another JLF-alternative that’s worth consideration. IF you want something more JLF-like that has more parts that fit (without modding!), then getting this joystick (if it’s convenient for you) is definitely warranted. It does NOT totally obliterate or do everything better than the other joysticks IMHO…
I’m satisfied enough with the joystick that I’m keeping it. I had some reservations about it but thankfully it was a pleasant surprise and is worth the purchase (IMHO) whether you keep it as-is, do a light mod like I did, or more extensive but still (in my opinion) sane microswitch mod. I don’t see that people have to do actuator mods or ridiculous things like electrical tape wrapping/shrink wrapping to improve this joystick. It’s fairly good as it is. It’s different enough from the JLF and better where it counts as far as I’m concerned but does NOT destroy or fully replace the Seimitsu line (again, where I’m concerned).
Like most Japanese joysticks, stock tension still feels light to me but I didn’t have to go overboard to get to a reasonable tension. * Since it IS compatible with LS-32 and JLF springs, any of the replacement springs available at PAS (or forthcoming as the case is with the LS-32 springs) will fit onto the Hayabusa shaft fine.* I tend towards lighter tension as my “comfort zone” so I probably wouldn’t get anything more than 1.5-2 times standard tension… I probably wouldn’t even bother getting a new spring part for this Hayabusa since it feels fine to me as-is with an intertwined LS-32/Hayabusa/“JLF clone” spring mod.
If you love modding beyond the stock spring, the microswitch mod is NOT a ridiculously complicated mod to accomplish. If you’re good with a Dremel, the microswitch base mod should be easier than shaving 30mm Hori button tabs off a Tekken 5 faceplate.
One area where the Seimitsu’s are definitely at advantage is availability of removable, optional two-way and four-way restrictor gates. I didn’t see an area on the Hayabusa to install or remove restrictor gates. You’d have to mod the existing base or hope for Hori to come out with an option for restrictors. This joystick was clearly designed for fighters in mind although there’s no reason it wouldn’t work just as well as-is with platform games and probably side-scrolling shooters, too. It’s definitely NOT made for Pac-Man as it is! (Sorry, but you honestly NEED a four-way restrictor for that game and the LS-32 has the best among the LS-joysticks I own.) Keep your LS-32’s and Zippyy’s for that!
**As much as I do favor fighting games, I DO like having controllers that are generally good across game genres as well as playing well with (arguably) faster-paced, older games. That’s where I found the LS-joysticks very hard to beat.
IF you’re a JLF modder or just want to “pimp” out the joystick, the good news is that it seems every mod part developed for the JLF will fit the Hayabusa fine. Again, let me reiterate that the shaft and dust covers are IDENTICAL in measurements to the JLF-CD kits. Every Japanese standard balltop handle and bat stick handle will fit just fine, too. I would imagine all the what I’d call “crazy parts” like JLF replacement actuators and so on would fit fine, too. I just think the general stock condition Hayabusa is good enough that I’d wonder WHY you would buy those “crazy parts”!
P.S. – Unnecessary boxing aside = I’ve never had issues with damaged LS-joysticks and JLF’s arriving in the mail; that’s more an issue of careful of the person packing the item, and, gee, I still received a Hayabusa with a bent prong! =, I liked getting the stickers. I’ll probably slap one sticker on the inside faceplate or exterior baseplate of the joystick case that becomes the permanent home of this Hayabusa stick lever.
How does the Hayabusa (stock) compare to the JLF? In terms of engage distance and spring tightness. I’ve also tried the LS-32 but I did not enjoy the popping.
Great pics btw
@tastylumpia - The Busa feels slightly tighter than the JLF if at all. It engages sooner, similar to the LS-56 but throw is a little longer. The signature JLF “deadzone” is pretty much non-existent. It really feels like an LS-5x/JLF hybrid. The pivot is smooth. Probably the smoothest I’ve experienced.
I’ll be trying JLF mods on my Busa tonight. Springs and actuators that I gathered through the course of my JLF experimentation.
LS-32 popping seems to happen intermittently. Usually with people newer to the LS-32.
I liked the LS-32 enough that I just stuck with it and it’s still my favorite general-use joystick.
I don’t really care what most other people think about it; there’s a terrible tendency for many people to trash product they haven’t even properly tested let alone used(!).
(I do consider quality/build issues when I buy product and that’s the reason I passed on the Crown joystick made for the US/Japanese market joysticks. I at least thought about it instead of automatically trashing it which seems to be the case for many people who have only used the JLF and are convinced OEM product is always better…)
The LS-32 has been a damn good fightstick for me and generally the most reliable joystick controller I’ve used for videogames, PERIOD…
(The Zippyy clone would be just about as good but I honestly think the stock Zippyy spring and microswitches are a bit inferior to the LS-32’s. Still a darn good knock-off/clone of the LS-32, though, and it definitely would be equal to the LS-32 after you upgrade the spring and microswitches, IMHO.)
It’s the control lever I use on the days when “nothing else” seems to work. The LS-40 and LS-56/-58 definitely require you to be relaxed to use them well… (A higher-tension spring definitely helped me on the issues I was having with the LS-58 but I still don’t use that lever as often as the LS-32 or LS-40.) You simply can’t “muscle” those joysticks the way you can an LS-32…
I’ve had “popping” happen to me in the past but I’m so used to the LS-32 now that it’s generally not an issue for me anymore.
For some people, it annoyed them enough that they did one of several things –
(… And the thought comes back to me that you really can’t discuss joysticks in any forum/message board without it coming off semi-dirty. Just general terms like “shaft” and “lever” are sort of on the unintentionally dirty side! LOL)
And to specifically answer your questions about the Hayabusa –
Throw – definitely longer than the LS-joysticks I’ve used (LS-32, LS-40, LS-56/-58). Doesn’t seem to bug me as much as the JLF.
It also feels like the Hayabusa recenters faster than the JLF. Recentering based on my short play with the Hayabusa seems to be as fast as the LS-series joysticks I’ve used.
Engage distance – microtabs definitely have a longer engage distance than levered microtabs. There’s a GOOD reason there for why Moonchilde modded/replaced his microswitches the way he did. I haven’t had the Hayabusa so long and this isn’t bugging me as much as it did on the JLF.
I think levered microtabs are definitely an advantage for performing diagonal moves like Dragon Punches/Shoryuken and faster tap-tap dash moves. Diagonals definitely seemed to be a bigger issue for me on Hayabusa versus LS-joysticks BUT not as bad as the JLF. I was surprised the dashes came out as well as they did. Big, big surprise. That would have killed the deal for me if the Hayabusa hadn’t performed so well for me!
On the other hand, I’ve been using what I think are better joysticks for going on 4+years now so maybe I’m okay with an inferior joystick, again? I sorta doubt that, personally. I think the Hayabusa is at least better than the JLF (which most of us ARE looking for!) but not a Seimitsu defeater/THE world champion, I’m afraid. Still a generally good joystick, though.
Short answer – I don’t think the Hayabusa engage bugs me as much as the JLF otherwise I’d be seriously looking for new microswitches OR putting the Hayabusa up for sale in the Trading Outlet (which seems very unlikely at this point).
Spring Tightness – about the same as the JLF, less than the LS-32. I went ahead and did a spring mod – wrapped the Hayabusa spring into an LS-32 spring – and generally like the new tension better than stock tension. That’s just me. Note that Moonchilde did the same thing but he used an LS-55 spring by itself…
Again, great news about the Hayabusa is that you can use any market spring developed for the JLF in it. That means all LS-32, JLF, and LS-55 springs will fit onto it just fine…
Ya. There really is no “THE World Champion” joystick because everyone has their own personal preferences but right now this is my shit. It has characteristics of many other levers and this actually makes it very unique. It truly seems like Hori took the time to research other joysticks and tried to take the better characteristics of the top levers and combined them with a brand new (and far superior IMO) pivot design making an incredibly solid product. Choosing Sanwa style shaft, spring, and actuator was smart because of the replacement parts readily available for it. I think I’ll be playing on the Busa primarily for quite some time. That gate is loud as hell though 
@GeorgeC @iNENDOi The LS-32 and LS-56 indeed have an inferior pivot and it becomes apparent under more tension. The extra tension makes the pivot not smooth. I’ve played on the LS-56 for about a year now and while it isn’t a big deal under stock conditions, under the extra tension I was wishing the whole time it felt more like a LS-40.
As for the LS-40 having less tension even using the same spring as a LS-32, that’s because the LS-32 has higher tension microswitches in it. A microswitch mod will clear that up easily.
I’ve also never had any problems removing or assembling the mounting plates on any of the LS-series of PCB’s.
As for the Hayabusa? had a chance to actually play on it last night but it required me to route my prototype stick a bit, which is no big deal. It feels really good and easy to play on. I don’t think I’ve used a Japanese stick that snaps faster and more accurately back to neutral than the Hayabusa. Totally agreed with you George, the snappy feeling it has and the quick reset to neutral is great, and I think the Hayabusa does this better than any other Japanese stick at the moment.
Once modded with levers, the Hayabusa is pretty much exactly like the LS-40/LS-56 and if you can play on those, you can play on Hayabusa. The throw is exactly the same, and once levers are installed everything feels like being at home, but with superior parts and easier to mod.
I wouldn’t recommend JLF mods on the Hayabusa other than the spring mods. Actuator mods are going to be a problem on Hayabusa because of the really short engage, using oversized ones is going to cause problems with it. Maybe only a .5 mm oversized if you aren’t going to lever mod, but if you lever mod? Don’t mod the actuator.
Gate mods altering throw would be really nice, and I’m probably going to get working on some gate designs soon. Nice thing is, I don’t really have to work so much on new measurements since it’s the same measurements as the LS-56. This will be easy to get out. I have to disagree with @GeorgeC on the throw, it’s identical to the LS-56 and maybe even a tad shorter since the actuator does not taper off at the top like the LS-56 actuator does. The gate is the same size though.
Overall nice review @GeorgeC Good to know about the JLF part compatibility, I thought they looked exactly the same for some parts but I wasn’t sure because I don’t have a JLF sitting next to the Hayabusa to tell. The Hayabusa parts are going to be higher quality though because they’re Delrin, so that puts everything about the Hayabusa a step above the JLF already. The JLF has probably one of the ugliest and softest piece of shit actuators I’ve ever seen, and throw on top of that the awful screws in the mounting plate, and Hayabusa is already a better JLF alternative. Throw in LS-56 engage and throw and it’s an even tastier package to swallow. It’s a great Seimitsu alternative as well, issues people have with Seimitsu pivots, dead zone, and so on, aren’t really a problem with the Hayabusa.
After playing on it, I still retain my 10/10. I would probably rate it 9/10 stock because of no levers and weaker spring, but once levers are in and the tension has been increased, it’s easily 10/10. Throw mod = 11/10. It’s that good IMO.
Ok guys (and gals if you’re around). I took some pics and there were a couple of things that I found interesting and wasn’t expecting. Let’s begin.
Shaft
[details=Spoiler]
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/gumbyslide/IMAG0398.jpg
The shafts are (EDIT: nearly) identical. The only difference is the e-clip groove. The Hayabusa shaft has a larger gap for the e-clip making it much easier to remove and install. This means that hollow shaft, titanium, stainless, Twist, and The Link shafts will swap in with no issues. I’ll actually be installing the Hayabusa into a full LED S7 case soon with a PAS hollow shaft and LED balltop. More on that stick soon. I’ll also be replacing a JLF that I have on a TE with a Hayabusa and installing a Link.[/details]
Spring
[details=Spoiler]
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/gumbyslide/IMAG0397.jpg
The springs are pretty much the same if not identical. (EDIT: There is actually something like half of a coil more on the Hayabusa spring but they are the same height.)The JLF is on the right, Hayabusa on the left. I installed a PAS 3 pound spring and found it too tight. 3 lb might be almost necessary for a 1mm actuator to get it back to neutral faster. The switch engage is so fast with a 1mm OS actuator that the shaft needs to be TDC to deactivate the switch. 2 pound spring feels just right.[/details]
Spring Flange
[details=Spoiler]
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/gumbyslide/IMAG0395.jpg
The spring holders are NOT identical though I dont think it would make a huge difference if you swapped them out though the part that hangs down on the JLF unit might cause issues with the pivot. I didn’t test it because it was late and my girlfriend wanted some love. You can see the differences clearly in the picture. JLF on the right, Hayabusa on the left. Lower quality plastics on JLF components all around. [/details]
Actuator
[details=Spoiler]
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/gumbyslide/IMAG0396.jpg
Here’s where things get a little more interesting. The JLF actuator on the right and Hayabusa on the left. They appear the same and they ARE the same…design. I may be wrong here because I don’t have a caliper at home to do precise measurements but I did hold the bell part of the actuators together sideways on a flat surface and noticed that the Busa unit was just barely peeking over the edge of the stock JLF actuator. When I did the same test with the Busa and a .5mm oversized PAS actuator the overhang disappeared. My guess is that measurements will show that the stock Hayabusa actuator is actually .5mm oversized in comparison to a JLF.[/details]
Conclusion after more play with the Hayabusa –
Do we have a possible contender for the best new arcade product/introduction of the year?
I think so!
@Moonchilde :
I played a bit more with the Hayabusa and the funny thing is that through most of that additional hour I was getting much, much better with that joystick.
I was comfortable the first time I played with the LS-32 but didn’t improve as much so quickly… The LS-32 was still obviously more comfortable for me than the JLF, though.
The JLF was at best OK but very awkward… I never got the hang of that joystick and still don’t see all the fuss about it. I still believe it’s a mediocre control unit that just has too many design and performance flaws.
The Hayabusa, on the other hand, seems to get easier and more comfortable with usage (!) –
and this was all on Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo (HD edition which isn’t quite as bad as the arcade original) which has a reputation for being a finicky game (controller-wise) and having eccentric control issues! Towards the end of my playtime, I started developing control issues but I think that was me/some fatigue or possibly issues related to two pushbuttons (switches wearing out???). It was not the Hayabusa. It performed beautifully and I was zipping and rolling and hitting diagonals solidly.
I changed my mind – probably not going to do ANY switch mods on the Hayabusa. This is the first joystick with non-levered microtabs that feels solid to me. 100% better than the Seimitsu LS-32 and LS-40? No, but it’s still a very good JLF alternative. I’m still not retrofitting the LS-series joysticks I have but there’s a very good chance the next two control levers I buy will be Hayabusa’s for parts compatibility reasons (shaft covers, no need to do mods, etc.) and also because I was impressed enough by it. Spring mods will still happen because I think Japanese joysticks in general still have stick tension that’s too low for my likes.
IF I were to ditch any existing LS-joystick I own, it would probably be my single LS-58-01(CX). Now that I see the Hayabusa is so compatible with existing JLF-type installation/anchor points, it would be very practical to put the thing in the one non-universal HRAP (3) I haven’t modded (if it fits the mount area)!
The Hayabusa is a very solid, clever piece of engineering. It is as was said in your early review – a synthesis of the best aspects of the JLF and LS-series joysticks with fewer quirks and hiccups. I still think the LS-joysticks are fine – particularly the LS-32 and LS-40 – but the Hayabusa has less of the ugliness and industrial construction of the LS-joysticks that puts me off. The LS-32/-40 ARE harder to install the JLF or Hayabusa. I’ve always had to remove the PCB from the LS-32-01 to get it onto joystick mount zones; this was a pain-and-a-half in particular with the HRAP N3/NX case. They are bulky, ugly pieces of hardware beneath the faceplate. The Hayabusa is a bit more like the JLF to me but doesn’t have the annoying JLF tendencies and cost-cutting material tendencies (see the JLF Mounting Plate screws!) the JLF is infamous for!
If Hori were smart, they’d stop putting Sanwa JLF’s in all their joysticks and just ship them with Hayabusa’s from now on. It’s a better joystick than the JLF, period…
I don’t think we’ll see Hayabusa’s in Mad Catz joysticks unless Markman works a miracle but this is definitely the first OEM control lever I wouldn’t separate from a joystick case if it came with it. The Hayabusa should be popping up in every HRAP case Hori ships from this year onward. It should be shipping with the HRAP N3/NX in addition to the dated HRAP V3/VX!
It’s not even the end of the first month of the year and I think we have a contender for best new product introduction/arcade part of the year.
It should still qualify even though the FE was introduced in 2012. Obviously, not a lot of us have really played much with the Hayabusa yet!
Not quite identical. It’s an obvious tweak but if you look at them you will see that the Hayabusa lever offers a much easier angle to work with when it comes to pulling the e-clip off. If you notice the JLF lever is straight, with no angle, that means you HAVE to pull it off from the side. Hayabusa allows you to get better leverage at it, which is another Seimitsu feature that I noticed.
Looks identical with the exception that the Hayabusa spring has a tad bit more coil to it. I’m assuming though that they’re the same spec. Nice shot there. I want to try some PAS JLF springs now. So happy they’re retro-compatible.
It’s painfully obvious here which is which. This boils down to the JLF using a soft and easily damaged plastic for this part vs Hayabusa’s Delrin part. The delrin used in Hayabusa is not only self lubing in a way (delrin has extremely low surface friction) but harder and seems like it should last a near lifetime. I wouldn’t even bother testing it, in fact, I don’t think I’d want that Sanwa part anywhere near my Hayabusa, lol.
I thought the Hayabusa actuator seemed a bit different from the JLF one. If you notice, well, not only the painfully obvious lower quality plastic that is easily damaged, but the Hayabusa actuator does indeed seem about .5 mm larger and on top of that, a tad taller bell with more angled edges vs the JLF’s more rounded ones. Obviously the higher quality delrin comes into play as well, will last longer, and keep its shape better.
Thanks for the images. It really clears up a lot here, and this is all good stuff, and I really appreciate it. Now I don’t have to take apart my friend’s JLF just to look at this stuff.
@GeorgeC I agree the JLF is really awkward. It’s like, I dunno, it doesn’t feel natural. The huge engage and huge throw really kills it for me. I started off on a JLF clone, then moved on to a LS-40 and it really opened my eyes about the over all design theory behind the JLF. Eventually I got a free JLF in a case I bought, tried it out, couldn’t stand it and went back to the 40 in a second. Later, picked up a 56, liked it, but didn’t feel it was as good as the 50.
I really don’t understand why it’s standard other than Sanwa getting lucky and getting a contract for it in nearly ever mass produced stick on the market. What I think really happened was that most people love Sanwa buttons and companies would be foolish to not go with Sanwa buttons. To make the contract sweeter I bet Sanwa offerend JLF’s at a cost to them that they couldn’t refuse. It’s what I would do if I was a company, and makes business sense. It also makes business sense that a stick producer would get parts from one vendor vs many, which keeps the over all costs down and higher profits. Sadly, that’s business, and the market penetration Sanwa got was most likely because of the hair sensitive buttons everyone raves about. stand it.
Anyway, as much as I love the Hayabusa I think people with Seimitsu sticks would be fine keeping what they have. I would only recommend retrofitting all their other sticks if they weren’t happy with the few odds and ends about Seimitsu that bother them, because the Hayabusa has none of that. It’s true that Seimitsu is a bit bulkier and there are a few aspects to them that degrade their quality a little. No metal washer, odd lever height on LS-40, mounting options, odd pivot in most sticks, and that dead zone wiggle. But over all, I still think Seimitsu sticks are a 9 out of 10 once modded and 8 out of 10 stock. They’re great sticks, and I still love the ones I have, but they’re going to be retired to my secondary sticks that other people play on.
The only mod I’d recommend you right now is a 1 mm oversize actuator. Why? Because, the stock actuator is .5 mm oversized, and if you want that quick engage that levers give you, they’re only .5 mm thick, so the total oversize you’d need is 1 mm for the same engage as the LS-40 and LS-56. That is if you don’t want to put levers on them and keep the body stock without having to do any permanent body modifications in case you eve wanted to sell the Hayabusa.
I fully agree with you about them dropping Sanwa and using Hayabusa in all their sticks that aren’t FE. I mean, for one, the cost savings and not having to have a contract with Sanwa, but also, the market penetration that will get Hayabusa is fantastic.
And yes, I’m already loving the Hayabusa so much, I feel it deserves at least a nomination for best new product of the year. Or at least best new corporate manufactured product of the year, that way, stuff like Kaimana can still get their well deserved nods for community driven best new products. I think it qualifies as such, considering it was launched this year on its own as a stand alone product.
Good stuff guys!
Oh, also, @GeorgeC is it me or does the quality assurance on the Hayabusa seem a lot better than Seimitsu? As much as I love them, I’ve found that sometimes the engages and throws on their gates are not equal on all sides of the square and noticed some mold injection discrepancies here and there on them. The Hayabusa is manufactured to a really high spec, which also scores it points IMO above the other joysticks on the market. Even higher spec than JLF, which I hate to admit, is higher spec than Seimitsu even though the over all design is poor.
