easiest characters to learn are haggar and sentinel.
edit: easiest characters to learn basics of the game with
BS. Haggar requires DPs. Wolv uses direction+button and S=A. What’s easier? DP A or vB / >S+A?
Got nothin on sent though…
you don’t really need DPs to learn haggar. you just pipe into magic. it’s obviously not effective, but it allows people to understand the combo mechanic off of a combo starter.
sentinel you just low M or frying pan into magic into rocket punch/hsf
They also don’t require very fast button presses, kinda like Hulk. Hulk’s not that hard to learn either.
once you DO understand the game just a tad, wolverine and wesker are both good for learning because they have combos that are just slightly more than magic series. wolverine teaches crossup mixups and dive kick pressure, as well as dash/lights. wesker teaches projectile spacing and teleport mixups, as well as how to time assists with his otg gun for extended combos. also air grabs.
both are effective in x factor as well.
but yeah not too many characters in this game are “difficult” to play, but those are the ones that I think are pretty good for learning the game.
[obligated]
> Honzo’s crazy ask thread/I’ll help yah out thread
[SIZE=4]> Not general discussion thread. [/obligated][/SIZE]
Well let me start with this. I am the only person in my town whose good at Marvel (from what I’ve found). That doesn’t mean I am the only person who plays it, my personal friends actually like the game, they just aren’t fighting game players. So, naturally they ask me for help, since I am kinda good at the game.
I start by asking which characters they want to use. My friend wanted to use deadpool/hulk/dante , because he liked them as cahracters and their playstles appealed to them. I observed him doing the trials until he gets to the point where he simply just can’t do it, and then I told him to move on to the next character, to see the basic things he can do right at that moment.
Then I tell him to go to training mode where I teach him assist synergies (deadpools otg for hulk making his combos easier), not neccesarily complex things, but things that he can do. I then teach him his dhc potential and how to dhc in any of his team orders, because in real matches you have to understand your dhc options, and its easy damage. Basically teaching him easy bnb’s that he can execute, not neccesarily the hard or even average ones. You just want him to be able to complete a simple combo into a hyper.
Now he needs to play people of his similiar or worse skill level. I know there’s a lot of support behind the idea that playing people that are better than you make you better. While that may be true for the more hardcore people who wish to get better, it is not true for newbies/casuals. New people need to feel good about themselves after a match, if they feel bad they will lose the enjoyment they were having. The generation of people that you are teaching are not about work, they are about instant gratification and repetition of that gratification over and over and over and over and over again. This generation LOVES, and even CRAVES easy repetitive gratification, and you have to feed into that, so they get the hunger to keep playing. Beating them to a pulp 50 times in a row will make them utter something along the lines of “This game is dumb.” or “This isn’t fun.”. SO, have them play their similiarly newbie friends or play online. I am a big supporter of online, since the matches will always be there for whenever the dude wants to play.
When their playing you can criticize them, tell them mistakes they are making, or offering tips, but try not to be TOO negative. Be sure to compliment them on the things they did right, and try and goad them on not to forget thigns and do better. I have a problem of being way too negative, and its honestly hard for me to suger coat things, but sometimes you have to.
About 90% of the time when you are trying to teach someone new to the scene, you are dealing with a scrub. They have a scrub mentatlity about things, such as not accepting mistakes and instead delfecting the blame or saying the otehr guys suck even though they jsut won. These are all scrub traps that everyone falls into once in awhile, but for a true scrub this is his mentality always. So, you have to understand that you are dealing with a scrub, and heres honsetly nothing you can do to break him of these habits, he has to do it by himself.
Which leads me to my last point about teaching someone. A great man once said “You can lead a scrub to water, but you can’t make him drink.” Essentially you can open his eyes to all this knowledge and ways to improve, but he can be like “naw fuck that”, and you can’t do anything about it. you have to tell the person to train, go into practice mode, and keep at it even though he sucks now. This is up to the person, its out of your hands at this point. If he doesn’t have the drive to get better, he won’t. If he doesn’t want to beat YOU, the person teaching him, then he won’t get better. He has to develop the hunger to win, and beat those better than him. Because if he does not, then there’s nothing you can do but watch as his skills stagnate and eventually wither away just outside the oasis that can nourish and foster him into a good player.
Ah. Great explanation. Thank you.
It’s funny, because most of my friends gave up after it being “too hard,” except for one. He’s a great guy, and I’d say he’s my best friend, but he’s not really a fighting game player and he can get scrubby sometimes. Yeah, he complained for a while, but then he started getting into it and telling me things he wanted to try out. It was pretty cool, actually. He eventually sold MvC3 when he heard Ultimate was coming out and bought Duke Nukem Forever (why…), but he says he’ll go through the pain of picking it back up again. I’m not going to tell him what to do, but I kinda hope he does.
Very informative post! I’ve been wanting to get my friends into Marvel and now I have something to work with. +1
Honzo, teach me how you bodied my Tron/Taskmaster/Phoenix team so bad and how to not get bodied so bad.
Other than the accidental LM arrows instead of MH arrows after the air throw. That was just me shitting the execution bed.
Well don’t start tron, just no, just list, JUST STOP. Task,tron is much better than tron,task.
The whole phoenix thing. You have to understand that for me phoenix vs my team is a literal 10-0 matchup in favor of phoenix. Theoretically I should never win that matchup, ever. BUT I’ve been playing top level phoenix’s online (viscant, flocker) and offline (champ mostly, clock, tokido, detrimantix), since march. So, I have a ton of practice in this matchup in which I use to my advantage in the matchup.
I say all that because you have to factor that in to the advice I’m going to give you. you literally only have to touch me once with either tron or task to win, thats it. If you are playing at a competent level, after you touch me once into a completed combo I can’t really do much about it, just get dark phoenix kill the char do the trap mixup up twice at most and gg I dead. Not to be insulting or anything but its not hard to win when you have a team like that.
This is actually what I was going to ask, good shit. However I have a question of my own: how do I get used to the raw speed of MvC3? I started FGs with SF4 and I find I can’t keep up.
Should I just play more, or is there a smarter way to go about it?
Out of all the new characters so far, who do you think is the best just from the hands on time with them and why?
Also do you think any of the top tiers are going to go down significantly from MvC3 to Ultimate?
Well I too come from a similar backround, so I’m still trying learn this as well.
Personally how I keep up is a combination of matchup knowledge and pure reflexes. Through matchup knowledge I know how what they’re doing is going to affect me, and this helps me in the blocking department. Say for instance, because I know that zero can cross me up with his lighting thingy I can block the cross up as soon as I see the startup for the move. So, I don’t really have to guess I just know or have a good idea what they want to do. The whole relex thing I can’t really help you out with (being young is greeaaaaaaaaaaaaat), but there are some things you can do. You can just play a lot to the point where your eyes are able to follow the action at a faster pace than the game and your mind zones out and your playing on mostly instinct in a zen like state of mind. If you can’t reach enlightenment you can always use physical supplements to aid you in keeping up (i.e energy drinks, shots, soda, etc), it honestly does help sometimes. I find you play more better when you don’t eat as well, thats just a tourney thing that I’ve always done (and found out a lot of people don’t eat during tournies), and I find more instinctual /ID parts of your mind kick in and you make decisions better. Half the trouble of keeping up is the indecision that occurs when your unsure of something, and you fall behind.
Also, you can always set the pace of the match, if your not into the whole blocking zero thing for 7-10 seconds of straight (I did that once and felt like a boss, but my mind wanted to vomit). If you don’t like being up close you can always use an assist that limits movement/rushdown (haggar, dante, doom), to slow down the pace to a more exceptable level for yourself. I’m not trying to make it sound easy, because its not, but these things can help even marginally, which is still worth it.
I think the “in the zone” feeling is very interesting, and if players can tap into that more often they would probably do better. The only problem with playing like that all the time is just mental exhaustion. My first real tournament I placed 2nd, and by the end of the day my brain was literally mush. I couldn’t even respond to all the haters giving me shit (oh yes I get shitted on more than most players). So, getting used to that is still foreign for me. The asians that play Fighting games seem to have figured out how to deal with that by just being abhorrently unhealthy at tournaments or just having an iron will. The fact that somebody like poongko can play at a high level for 20 hours on end is indeed impressive.
Well i only played hawkeye with any success, so I guess him. But I haven’t played the 4 new characters, so i don’t know. It’s really too early to tell.
The way I see it playing out is that top tier will be nerfed, but will still be good, just less bullshit. Wolverine and possibly phoenix are the only ones moving drastically in tiers. Wolvie had his most bull shit aspects taken from him that made him so hard to deal with, so I believe he will be mid tier or mid high tier, which is a pretty big drop. Phoenix is a wait and see, shes still godly in lvl 3 xfactor, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise (seth killian).
Once people figure out how the new snap works I see Phoenix getting blown up and winning at a definite lower percentage than before. Dark Phoenix will be mostly the same with the only adjustment being the Phoenix player will have to learn how to play as non XF Dark Phoenix to maybe kill one character sometimes (BIG DEAL).
Honzo how do you feel about the God of Thunder my boy Thor?
I never played thor until stream monsters kept requesting him, and I now use him on my alt team. I love thor hes so awesome. Does he have problems? HELL YEAH. But in the right hands he can still be a monster, and he is actually a decent character that synergizes well with others. His air dash needs to be faster, and his ground dash should literally be doubled to be any threat on offense. But I still think hes fun and rewarding to use. I will try and find a better team than thor/hulk/doom to put him in in ult, but for sure Ill be using him.
Are you sticking with Taskmaster in Ultimate? I want to stick with him and am trying to piece together a strong team that focuses on keepaway but can switch to rushdown if opened up. Currently I’m thinking Taskmaster/Hawkeye/Nova. Nova’s gravimetric shield assist, from what I hear, stops projectiles and keeps people out, which should help as a get off me assist for both if the enemy gets mid screen. Full screen, it should be relatively easy to keep opponents locked down with arrows. Nova seems like he will be a good anchor with his mobility and damage.
What are your thoughts on a very strong projectile team with good synergy that also has the ability to do strong combo damage when the situation arises? I’m guessing I should probably learn Doom as an anchor since he’s getting buffs and his Hidden Missiles seem like they’d fit well… but meh. He just doesn’t feel good to play quite yet. Thoughts on Nova, Strange, or Doom as an anchor, or Ghost Rider/Nemesis/Firebrand in the mix somewhere? I’d really love to keep Task and Hawkeye in for sure, but struggling to come up with a third member.
This is largely assist-related, and I’d be willing to use Task as an anchor if with a more teleport-oriented point if one of the Wesker types proves to be really good. I feel like Task will be a stronger anchor now with air x-factor and mashable hypers. Ghost Rider/Hawkeye/Taskmaster could be really annoying. I really wanna find set ups for combo extenders that utilize Hawkeye’s poison arrow assist.
gotta make ppl respect that lame…with helath nerfs is 900k the avg health of most characters? then i wouldnt feel weird about wanting deadpool and hawkeye on my team still waiting for rocket racoon before i decide on a 3rd character.
Hey Gonzo, which do you think would be a better zoning team?
Chris/Dorm/Hawkeye
Or
Chris/Trish/Taskmaster
Also, do you think Hawkeye is solid on point when a match starts, or does he work better to start off as an assist?
erm… mind if i interrupt on this? chris is good, he’s very good, but only if your execution is above sub-par, let me rephrase that, if you are anywhere near not-god-like execution but ‘superb’ levels. dormammu is easily a zoning made character… and hawkeye is hard to pass judgement on him, but he should be on that level as well.
what you’re getting wrong is chris trish and taskamster. don’t assume just because you have a guy with many projectiles on his tank, can you automatically assume that the character is superior in zoning. marvel and capcom are not that stupid, and like to play around with you as much as you like to play around with their characters. trish is simply not a zoner, she is more of a trap character… do not get those two mixed up and confused with her style of play. trap is different from zoning, she’s good for keeping pressure and getting in, not the other way around. task master is good for getting in, he doesn’t look good on the other half of the screen. he has complete rush in moves and that is the way he is set up to be - in my honest opinion.
with chris, it’s kind of a no brainer… he is indeed difficult to use, as having a lack of an air dash and his ground dashes are below average speeds and distances. you’d have better luck re-configuring your team, rather than your controller settings and getting to know the in’s and out’s of your players better rather than just “this is what i assumed, this is how i’ve played, and this is the result and my outcome.”
also, think more in each and every character’s specials, by specials i mean their hypers… the ones that use bars of meters. those are what ultimately reserve your style of play and tactics in the long run. think of how those connect and work with each other. if their move lists and special moves and normals help each other out but you have a team of unordinary, out of control, short-running team mates who do not feed off each others hyper moves, then ultimately you’re in the wrong and setting yourself up for appointments with disappointments… and clearly, i am no doctor.