Most people that didn’t start with 3S dont actually like the game. When you’re used to a certain way that a SF game plays 3S is really foreign and forces you to change up a lot of what you’re used to. You can still play rather fundamentally in this game but the fact that A+B does not always equal C and how the game is very hit confirm based doesn’t really ring with a lot of the old school players. Yet they still do well in the game because ultimately what will allow you to do well in this game is picking a good character and having solid fundamentals. You’ll have to take some risks now and again because of the parry system but the people who win the most have the most options and ideas to cover themselves against other players and have the parry system work for them.
A lot of people that started competitively with 3S dont like SFIV either. While there are several top players that actually like SFIV a lot of them can’t stand it either. For a game that tries to bring back elements of SF2 even from the first game it forgoes a lot of elements of what made up the older SF games that are more present even in 3S. Especially with things like how cross ups are the only viable meaties on wake up unless the other character has no reversal, poor walk speeds with large stages, normals with low active frames and block stun, characters reliant on mix up purposely given poor fundamental attacks, backdashes that are invincible, gaining advantages for losing, hit boxes that dont match the animations of the characters etc.
Back in the day I used to wonder why people hated 3S so much but it’s not a big deal anymore. The fact that not everyone likes the same games is what keeps the scene interesting. If everyone liked one game then nobody would play anything else. Especially with how much dedication it takes to stay competitive in each game. I now realize the feelings they had for 3S is the same feelings I have for SFIV. SFIV just plays so little like SF3 or even SF2 that it’s just stupid. If it played more like the SF2 games I would have liked it more but it plays like just…no other SF game I’ve ever played and none of it is more interesting than what I had played before.
Nuki himself gave up on SFIV to go back to 3S and VF because well…SFIV just isn’t interesting. It doesn’t bring anything new to SF for veteran players and it’s just a really dry game in the options you have offensiely. He still commentates and plays in 3S tourneys regularly and has a much bigger passion for the game.
In the end you can’t really make a big deal so much about who likes what. There’s a bajillion SF games. By odds someone is going to like one more than the other even if they play one regularly competitively. I played SFIV regularly competitively for the last 2 or 3 years even though I thought the game was trash and most of the people who lived near me did. Either way I knew getting the new people who were actually interested in the game into it would get them more interested to play other SF games later. I was one of the only people actually trying to get the newer players rallied up to play SFIV and get better at the game back during a time when a lot of the other players couldn’t be bothered to even play the game with them. They didn’t wanna play with new players because they felt it would cut off their time getting better at a game they already didn’t like. It’s funny cuz when Super came out they finally decided to take the game seriously and stop holding the scene back and now that 3S is out they’re going harder in SFIV than they probably ever have while I can just sit back and play 3S and Marvel 3. LOL.
Now I realize that time I spent playing a game I didn’t care about and helping people learn to play it paid off by getting a great rally and support from new and old players alike for what should be a relatively lag free arcade perfect version of my favorite fighting game ever. If all this game does is bring consistent online play and bring the game back to major tournaments, that’s all I’ll ever need from SF for the rest of my life. Thanks Capcom. I dont like where the new games are really going so I can just do what I like now.
Yes, he’s complaining about Chun-Li in that video. All I did was point this out when it’s pretty obvious from the interview. Instead you just start calling me names? Like EveryFlowerFlow mentioned:
Is parry into 50% + free mixup from Chun-Li’s b.hp and cr.mk is something he could say for any character? Go into Chun-Li’s b.hp or cr.mk range, then see which normals with similar startup can each character use to get that 50% into a mixup (though 50% is a slight exaggeration, it actually depends on the character’s stamina and whether they are crouching or standing). Urien cr.fierce is a poor example: it doesn’t have as much range as the aforementioned normals, and even more startup! 9f startup vs cr.mk 6f and b.hp 7f respectively. On top of that, Urien unblockables have the option of being escaped and/or have their damage mitigated with parrying once it begins: with Chun-Li it’s a clean 50% into a mix-up which can lead to another 50%.
I think the main fault here is failing to acknowledge that tiers matter. It’s a shame because this would actually help players in understanding their character’s strengths and weaknesses relative to another, and might even help them when it comes to fighting tough matches like Chun-Li is for most of the cast. Even a simple mental exercise using tier charts and probability was met with violent opposition, which is laughable considering how increasingly common the use of math is becoming as a tool for measuring and analyzing things in fighting games.
This is extremely straightforward and is based on years upon years of evidence of actual match outcomes, not on the basis of “I hate Chun-Li”
ive talked to ricky and justin before and the reason they dont like 3rd strike is because of parrying.
i didnt make this thread to say every matchup is even. i made this thread because i wanted to hopefully stop the excessive complaining about chun-li. it hurts the image of our game.
everyone knows shes the best. but at high level it takes a lot of skill.
every game has strong characters. 3rd strike gets a lot of heat for it when its not even that bad. thats all im trying to say.
you guys wanna argue with me on forums, id rather go play 3rd strike.
lol ty are you seriously gonna post a match from like 4 years ago?
i cant even watch this, i sucked back then. rom sucked back then too compared to now. like ive said before matchups and shit do not matter at low level. (what that match was). keystone was basically a drinking party with some games so using a drunk tourney match doesnt really prove much to me. when i first moved to norcal i had no idea how to play urien vs yang. the reason i switched at that time was because i had no idea what to do with urien vs yang, and i knew kinda what to do with chun. I think it took maybe 3 months before I finally beat rom with urien lol. i knew urien vs yang was pretty even because i could just watch jimmy play. i just sucked back then.
i dont think im good now, i consider myself a little above average. i only really think i leveled up this past year.
The only thing that wasn’t really known in America for a while any ways was how good Urien was. The Japanese knew for a while but Tokido came to Evo in 2k2 and showed off the charge partitioning and unblockables in a famous match agianst J.Wong.
The best way to allow yourself to be competitive with a character that isn’t top tier is to realize and be comfortable with the fact that your character isn’t top tier. Until you get over that barrier you’ll just get lazy with trying to win and make excuses. You either perform to your best with the lower tier or go to the dark side. That’s 3S and just about any other competitive fighting game that was played at Evo for the last 10 years.
I have an honest question for ryan.: Which characters can you objectively say go even with Chun-Li? Or even better, how many characters have an advantage against her?
yun and ken go pretty even. i get owned by every dudley.
no one has the advantage vs chun (in theory). shes the best character.
but TM will rape me. why? because hes better than me.
You cant stop fools from complaining, if it weren’t Chun, it would be Yun or Makoto or Ken, the list never stops, as long as there’s someone that’s #1, nobody will be satisfied.
Dudley is listed as 6-4 chun. I can kind of see where they are coming from, Dudley seriously suffers from the arbitrary limitation that is st.RH x EX MGB whiffing on crouching Chun-Li, and her 2 frame jabs can do a number on Dudley’s pressure even after he gets in on Chun-Li. If you are “getting owned by every dudley” you might just need to get a better understanding of the matchup.
Listing a top player being better than you is misleading, since the whole point of the argument here is to know which characters can fight on even ground with Chun-Li and why, because in the end you’re fighting Chun-Li with your character, and even Nuki or Kuroda are all limited by the characters they pick. It is therefore paramount to consider character choices in the matter. Quoting Jeff Schaeffer:
Picking a good character is also part of being knowledgeable at the game, especially in tournament formats like in the US which focus on playing double elimination and/or sets at a time. It’s no surprise top players who are interested in winning will also pick the most efficient path to victory, picking the character with the best tools at their disposal, so even if they are forced to act within the boundaries of their character, they can rest assured that their character choice will limit them as little as possible. This is why you see this trend of top players players who actually win majors picking characters who fall mostly on the top of the tier list.
He [ryan/let blood run] couldn’t win with Urien so he moved to Chun, and now he’s Godlike.
And let’s talk about Chun being “hard to use at higher levels”… Okay, you’re saying Chun is harder to use at a higher level than a Hugo/Oro/12, etc…? Get the fuck out with your propaganda. Maybe you’ve just come to realization that you’re terrible at 3S if you think Chun is hard to use at a high level.
To be fair, Chun does have some particular things in this matchup that gives her some advantages(EX MGB whiffing against her crouching being the biggest example), not to mention the midscreen game, but Dudley has serious potential to kill her up close with exclusive combos/juggles that work against her. The midscreen game ultimately puts things in Chun’s favor but this is one of the closer matchups. Sorry I’m being kinda vague right now but I’m in a hurry to go out. haha
players who are slightly better than you but not better enough to overcome the matchup disadvantage will lose to you though. if you dispute this you’re effectively denying that tiers exist.
Every time you post, it kind of seems like you go out of your way to be a dick head. Clearly he didn’t say Chun is harder to use at high level than Hugo, but seeing how you’re a fucking retard, I’ll dumb it down for you.
Chun-Li is a top tier character, the best character in Third Strike. Fucking fact, can we move on from that now? What Ryan was saying, and which I fully agree with, is that when you play Chun-Li again’st someone that knows how to fight her, shes still a great character but you have to be more advanced then fucking cr.mk super and kara throws.
Shes just as good as any other top tier character (Mak/Dud/Gouki/Ken) when both players know what their doing. The advantage is still there, but its not something to cry about because it’s** seriously** not that fucking bad. Allot of you guys play multi-games on here, vanilla sagat was worse, phoenix and pre nerf sentinel were/are worse and the list goes on.
Learn the matchup, because I put money on it, all you randoms I’ve never seen post on here complaining about Chun, I could beat your Chun with Sean, and I’m not saying that to flex, but to point out the fact that it really does make a huge difference when you actually learn how to fight her.
Suck on my salty chocolate baaaalllllsss hahahahaha best song choice.
At the very least one can say that the 3s community is much more agreeable than the sf4 and mvc3 communities with their “Hey bro”. 3s gives you chocolate salty balls and doesn’t provide hype in only flavor.
If you’re going to play 3rd strike, you can’t constantly bitch about Chun-Li. That would be a loser’s attitude, and it will just piss off the long time 3rd strikers. She can be dealt with, so rather than crying, ask around about how to deal with the match up.
That said, those of you who main 3rd strike need to stop being dismissive of her strength. The reality of the situation is that this is a character that goes even with maybe 1-3 other characters, then has the advantage against the rest of the cast, or even outright dominates them. That’s a difficult situation. Let’s look at other much maligned characters in Street Fighter history: O.Sagat, Claw (ST), and Vanilla SFIV Sagat. O. Sagat and Claw both had bad match ups. Granted, they were against other top tiers, but they were still there. Vanilla Sagat was top tier because he had no bad match ups, and then had the advantage in a sufficient amount of match ups to put him at the top. He still went even with most of the cast, having only a small number of 7-3 match ups. Fact remains, 3S Chun is one of the strongest examples of a non-broken top tier character to date. You can’t say “oh, it’s not that bad”, because it is. If you’re not playing a character in the top ten or so, she is a serious, serious threat that you have to be quite prepared for, unless you’re outright better than your opponent. Maybe as time goes by, the tiers will narrow and more characters will be considered to go even with her. Who knows? But for now, she’s strong as fuck and we all have to deal with her.
Does this ruin the game? Not at all. Only a handful of match ups against her are really bad. It’s entirely manageable…
