It’s called “turtle” btw… Just saying.
Keyword underlined and bolded. A post I made in another thread has merit here.
Some people do play this game for fun, and that’s totally fine, bum-rush all day and enjoy yourself, but it has to be acknowledged that not everyone is fine with that mentality.
There’s a rather large group of people who, while may not play in tournaments or any high level play, approach the game in a serious manner. Shock horror, taking a ‘game’ seriously, but most people DO take games seriously (ever play Risk or Monopoly? Some people shit brix over those games…).
So here’s the big distinction:
There are those who play SF4 and other games for fun, win or lose, the goal is to have fun.
On the other hand, are those who play SF4 with the intent to win, fun or not, regardless of what happens or how they have to do it, they are looking to win.
There’s nothing wrong with that though, because the fun the latter group has is just of a different kind; we don’t always have fun playing the game, but we have fun getting better at the game.
If someone gets beat by someone turtling, it’s entirely on that person; they weren’t good enough to handle their opponent and that’s the bottom line. If I lose a round that’s the way I look at it, I played at an inferior level of my opponent, there’s nothing cheap or wrong with what they did because ultimately I was the one that let it happen. Nothing can happen in this game unless you, the player, lets it happen, every single time you take damage you can trace the cause back to something you did wrong that let it happen.
It weirds me out to hear people complain about people who turtle, because they’re only turtling as a consequence of you letting them turtle. So why not figure out how to get in and force them not to turtle? If they don’t let you in, it’s because they’re better at turtling than you are at getting in, so obviously that’s something to work on.
It’s really, really not that hard to take any situation and look at it as a way to better yourself.
Sometimes I turtle against a Blanka that’s been trying to get a health lead and turtle on me.
I feel so ashamed afterward.
i agree about the gief technique.
pretty much EVERYONES tactic against gief should be to not let him get in on you since that is all he has. this in turn can make it seem like people are turtling against him, but that is really the only option - to hit and run.
but by run, i mean hit him, then just get your distance proper again and repeat.
i also have seen some run away blankas against gief, and the gief player was so pissed off (this was a tourney), but since blank ahad the lead there was nothing gief could do. it was pretty amusing to watch, but in order to win, it was blanka’s best bet. can’t blame the dude for that.
I don’t really, I get bored too easily, so I’ll rush someone down even when I have a good lead, which works most of the time, but sometimes doesn’t! :3
Other times, I’ll mimic the other person if they’ve been running away/turtling the entire game and I have a good lead, but that can lead to someone ragequitting 
I’m not too fussed, but I’d rather lose a fun game on the offensive that goes backwards and forwards, than win a boring game against someone who’s holding back all the time. I don’t mind turtling or running away when that person is good at it, like, knowing when to do a hit and run, or when to punish you etc. But when all they do is (say for Akuma) jump back and fireball the entire game, regardless of who has the lead, it can get very, very boring and repetitive having to deal with that type of player.
The only thing that can be kinda annoying is that one of the best things about online is playing against lots of different people. It kinda loses the point when a lot of people play in a very similar way.
Anyway, a good turtle doesn’t have to stay in the corner all of the time. A good turtle can be quite close and bait certain moves, overcome it with their defence and win from that. As long as your defence is better than their offense. I do that sometimes if I have a bit of a lead against someone who doesn’t move, so that when they do attack, I can get back at them, that’d be turtling in a way I guess 
But some people take internet points a bit too seriously, it’s like when people ragequit and send hateful messages. It’s only a game, if you lose, no big deal. It’s not the end of the world, right? It probably is fun for some people to do that, but I’m sure other people only do it because they have to win like their families depend on them winning some CP from someone else!
I’m sure in arcades it is different, but I don’t play in arcades :3c
When I play a turtle, I actually try stuff out. When I play a runaway character, unless i’m in a final or something, i generally don’t care enough. I’ll just try to get the match over with quickly, and on to the next one. I know HOW to generally deal with it, I just hate having to deal with it.
They turtle because I let them???
The following really happened during a match that I had when I was still playing. I have posted about this match before.
A match starts, and the opponent (Ryu) sits there. I’m Sim. I would be pretty dumb to jump in, so I try to poke. Not effective, he just blocks. I try to fireball? Not effective, his fireball is better. I try to chase him?? BAD IDEA. Teleport?? He’s ready for that. That’s why he’s just standing there. He’s waiting for me, and I can’t chip him or scare him really. I may get in a hit or two, but so what? He can dish out the damage and I can’t. He’s not scared so he sits there. All he needs are a hit or two and he has a lead, then he has even more reason to run. Also, if I get a lead but he has an Ultra, he has even more reason to NOT attack until the timer is almost out since he has a BFG that he can easily land with one mistake on my part.
IF he plays aggressively, then I can react accordingly. IF he plays a mix of both (offense and defense) I can adjust. However, if he just stands there and ONLY reacts to me, I am not only at a disadvantage but I want to throw something at my television.
As soon as get offensive I get hit, so I play smart and try to poke and get in, meaning I take all the risk. The alternative is to stand there and watch the timer. LAME.
I played this guy several times, and many rounds lasted until the timer expired.
I am not saying he played the wrong way. Other Ryu players have told me they run/turtle against Sim too since he can’t rush Ryu down. The fact that he played correctly (and well) while being so boring speaks about the game, not about him.
How did I “let him turtle”??? How can I FORCE my opponent to attack in a game where the aggressor (ESPECIALLY ONLINE) is RARELY at an advantage?
As for “bettering myself”, if that means I have to play in a way that is not my style then no thanks. This game is not so good that I am willing to bend to its will. There are other games that fit me better, so I play them.
i don’t know sim all that well but couldn’t you just train the guy to throw some fireballs to match yours and then when he’s throwing one use a IAT to pop behind him and land a quick combo?
again i don’t play sim but… yeah just mindfuck the guy then fall back a bit and wait him out. and if he has ultra at the end of a round, is behind on life and FINALLY is coming after you… is there really much doubt in your mind that he’s going to attempt to ultra? just run away a bit, punish his attempts to get in and you win, he might rethink his stand there and do nothing strategy at that point.
(He bolded the words “I play as gief” or something along the lines of that…)
Yeah.** Very** true. I’m surprised how many Giefs get pissed when you turtle… I mean, What else am I gonna do?
Walk up and let you SPD me?
Walk up and let you hit me with one of your super strong pokes?
which when blocked can most likely be ticked into … a SPD? or another grab?
Or, be a stupid turtle and not change my position at all, and let you…
Tick - > throw or get tricked into getting hit with a combo?
No thanks. If someone is rushing down on you when you’re Gief and you lose, you’re doing something wrong. I don’t play gief but heck, I think even on stun recovery Gief and reversal SPD for free
And If you’re complaining about people turtling or running away, you’re complaining about everyone who knows anything more than jack squat about playing against gief. (and everyone who has even a slightest possiblity of beating you)… Learn to find techniques to get in closer. That’s how the game works. Every character has weaknesses (well, maybe not Akuma/gouki in ST aka. Broken characters but those are rare… =p). Experiment and find ways to overcome them.
I’m very picky about who I add on my friends list. and I only add people if they are a good sport and don’t ragequit, complain, etc…
Most of those people tend to be better players (surprise surprise, [sarcasm]) And the reason for that I’ll state further down in this post…
Anyway, there’s this one person who (isn’t very good, and the few times I played with him he was a very good sport. (I absolutely murdered him every time, I don’t think he won even once) but he was a good sport and, I got better by getting owned by better players over and over again.
(when I started SF, I’ve gone through over 70 losing streaks in A2 and ST in one sitting against the same person… and I’m not exaggerating)
So I added him, since he was such a good sport, it’s usually a good sign he’ll become better, and is always willing to learn…
Yeah, well, something must have changed because I played against him again two days ago… and as always, I beat him… after about 4 or 5 games… he chooses, GIEF. So what do I do? turtle, run away,
and what did he do? He ragequits and then complains about my turtling…
sigh
Not to mention people have different Ideas about what “fun” is. For me “fun” isn’t bumrushing the other opponent all the time. (although It can be a part of it…)
For me what’s fun is the challenge of the game. Being able to win and solving the “puzzles” to be able to win.
Often times, I rush (certain playstyles are more common in certain characters… eg. flowchart ken, I will ALWAYS see if they throw a random shoryuken and if they do, I just sit back let them wiff or I block the shoryuken, then I knock them down, rinse and repeat. ), and they’re reactionary. So I play more defensively,
Something that really gets on my nerves though, is when people are good. They make use of all strategies, etc… and good at adapting… (to my turtling as well – to emphasize for anti turtles)
I squeak out a lucky win and they complain… about my turtling…
Other times, I don’t even turtle, I just block when they break free of my pressure. because I’m obviously not gonna just let them hit me when I see them jump over a fireball successfully (or something similar … they manage to guess something right and do a crossup…) (another good example is when I’m playing against flowchart kens… I don’t even Block until they get knocked down and I’m expecting a SHORRYUKEN) and they think I’m turtling just because I just happened to predict their predictable pattern and ONLY blocked at the right times…
suddenly that’s turtling too? but I was rushing down on you for the whole match…
what’s even worse is when these players are good, and are turtlers themselves or at least are more defensive than I am…
and at the end of the match… they complain… about my turtling… hypocrites…
and Before I finish…
I play Guile (learning cammy and rufus… Possibly chun). He’s a charge character… How else am I gonna get my charge? By holding forward? I don’t think so…
Finally…
quoted just because …he’s right on the dot.
Phew, I think that’s the longest post I’ve ever written.
edit: I’m going the the record here
Yeeah. (chinese accent) we still cool! All those people have join date in Oh-nine!
You’re right. I can’t complain. I’m not really trying to complain. Just stating what . . . my thoughts on it.
I’ve had plenty of good players who rush me down and hand my ass over to me . . . so how come I lose those matches??? Perhaps I’m a bad blocker? Yeah, I block bad but its Gief . . . I love the rush me down and try to finish me quick types cuz then I get to have fun! Not trying to win but just simply having fun whether I win or lose. But I get where yer coming from man . . . :tup:
it sounds like your just not quick enough to counter shit with lariats/pokes/spd’s. from experience (i play a rush-down ken in most matches other than gief) if i do just about anything that is me moving into giefs range i get either lariat to the face or a counter-poke if i try to go in low (i think it’s roundhouse and forward primarily used here by gief). if i go in high that gets owned by lariat (it’s got a TON of invincibility, especially on start-up. the only “rushing” i do on gief is if i hit a combo i am gonna end it in a tatsu that allows me to jump away from spd/ultra but looks like gief has a shot at them. outside of that i want to stay just barely out of my cr. forward range so that gief has to close distance (and in doing so not be blocking/able to quickly counter me) in some way shape or form.
Dictator doesn’t have the luxury to wait.
I beg to differ. Waiting with bar rules (with an iron fist of energy). You can wait for them to be stupid and throw a fireball, then ex SK em, or ex HS them, or ex PC if they jump in or pull off certain stupid moves. You don’t HAVE to rush in at them. Depends on the health difference.
I played a blanka today who start the round by walking backwards for 30 seconds, then finally decided to rainbow ball into my foot. No more turtling after that.
i would say that Ryu played you smartly.
dhalsim’s offense revolves around counter attacking and having people come to you.
his weakness is when he tries to get in on his opponent too since he is so slow.
i play balrog, and i honestly have not lost to a dhalsim in probably 3 months. it is by far the easiest matchup for me.
i typically will rush down initially and get a life lead, then kind of sit back and watch him throw fireballs that i can’t even FA because they dont reach me heh. at some point he has to make his move, and i know this, which is usually why i don’t have problems finishing them off.
i honestly find runaway players much more annoying than turtles, because turtles you can pressure and throw em and get overheads on em.
run away ryu/akuma/ken are probably the most annoying people to play because they have so many tools they can use.
however, as a balrog player, when i face someone who plays a good seth, sagat, or honda, and they actually are good and know the matchup, it would really be their benefit to stay away from me and keep distance, because they have that advantage over rog. i dont blame them for turtling or running away, because i know that as the matchup goes, that is their best bet.
One thought on how to handle the “no risk, all reaction” Ryu style is to watch some high level Japanese Sim play (videos).
Sim can actually wage a damn good fireball war against Ryu from the correct range.
As a Honda user , some matches (Rog/Blanka/Bison and many many more are better to play a waiting game on )
But that’s tournament play , Ill be the first to break it in casual play so I know all of my options for when I don’t have life lead and need to approach/ come back when it happens in tournament play. And this could depend on the player your playing against .
Especially knowing the amount of options I have to safely approach are slim.
So there is a time and a place for both options.
If your really are rush down and cant succumb yourself to boredom then find a character that allows your this luxury which is the minority in this game it seems . Or find a character who can entertain you in stale parts of a match like Shotos at least can keep chucking fireballs.
But in the end your just gonna do what wins your a match in any kind of serious play .
Why can’t we appreciate both styles of play? I have fun turtling. I play dhalsim, I can’t attack! If you want to rush just play a character that can, like Abel, C. Viper, Akuma, Sakura, or another aggressive character.
The fellow sim player having trouble with turtle Ryu: No one can out-turtle you, you’re Dhalsim! If he’s jumping your fireballs just hit him out of the air with s.HK or j.MP. If he wants a fireball war, have your fireball collide with his then interrupt his next one with s.HP. Or slide under them and limb poke.
Scrub Warning
I call myself a scrub now by SRK standards.
why? Because I feel some of the thigns people do in the engine are just stupid to the point of ‘wanting’ to scream ‘cheap’. Not calling them cheap, but the frustration from some of it is extremely nerve racking. I personaly can’t stand shotos and the only characters I play with fireballs are Rose/Chun-Li/Sim/tiny bit Sakura/Dan, its just not my style. But in this game that leaves me at a humongous disadvantage with this engine. It means that I’m 100% successtible to run away. As Humble pointed out, there are some match-ups where you are almost compeltley WORTHLESS if the person turtles up. WTf is my blanka supposed to do against a turtle Rog? Or my Gief? Honda? Best I can do is bait-n-counter…my options are pure crap. I’ve watched as Balrog will open the round with a jab DP and retreat. And I start having flashbacks to the only game I went real serious with…
MvC2. gambit…card snapback gone…
And it was ruled illegal…
While these guys are at ‘that’ level cause they can mess up and be beat, its a similar feeling of “F#CK”. I hate fighing shotos becaue I do it so much. I DESPISE fighting Balrog because he sits back and does c.jab to everything. Of course its made worse knowing that offensively he’s extremely dominating as well (damn jabs again)…so its like you have a near perfect offensive character and your going to essentially play nothing but defense.
:bluu:
I’ll take my time elsewhere. Neither of us get anything from this fight. Your not getting better, I’m not getting better, your not having fun, I’m not having fun. At that point I might as well get early chip with Blanka and just run away all match nursing my 20 pt lead. shrug
- :bluu:
Unreally…if you ever want some friendly practice, I don’t turtle and I don’t play shotos…we can get more matches in whenever you like. Just let me know beforehand so I know to be signed on.
I got dat chun/dictator/cammy/rose action. I’m working on Abel but he is pretty tough to use for me.
I agree that he probably played properly. That is what’s so pathetic.
I used to beat plenty of Rogs as Sim, but that’s because they rushed me and I caught them (Sim does have tricks). However, if they get a lead and sit back, there’s nothing Sim can really do.
As for run aways, to me that’s the same as turtling. They are forcing you to either attack or watch them back/neutral-jump.
It is a really bad idea to get into a fireball war with Ryu no matter what character you have. Some Japanese masters may be able to do that with Sim, but certainly not me (and NOT online).
J