It’s really hard to combo into FP HHS off a single c.LP (c.LPx2 into HHS is completely different). You have to master the ‘reverse piano’, i.e. LP to HP. If you aren’t able to piano all 3 inputs cleanly into really fast FP mashing, you aren’t going to combo it. You might get close, but close means that your opponent can either punish you between hits or block the HHS. I can only do it about 30% of the time.
This is the move that will separate the Honda masters from everyone else. Once you can do it 100% of the time, you’ve essentially unlocked a whole other side of Honda that most people don’t have access to. Being able to pressure people without maintaining charge is huge.
The only problem with c.lp xx fp hhs is the range is kinda short. Honda usually does best sitting out of an opponents sweep range and attempting to c.lp to hhs is exactly opposite of the general convention. Works well against sagat tho since his pokes blow. I would not attempt c.lp xx fp hhs against chun-li and rog too often tho cause if you whiff the jab or the hhs, you get swept, which is all bad.
How does it not? If you play a chun or balrog who never misses short short lightning legs or jab, jab, short, headbutt, you’re going to eat a lot of combos since your normals are slower.
After eating ex lightning legs and standing fierce off of jab from Ricky Ortiz A LOT, i’ve realized that you’re better off playing the patience game w/ lots of counter-hits.
hondas low jab definitely has worse range than uh… dhalsim? if you’re sitting outside of your opponents sweep range waiting for something to happen, why not take a tiny step, low jab HHS. obviously this is better than sitting there charging.
i mean if you’re saying that you’re gonna eat a lot of combos due to slower normals… isn’t that true of every other character? don’t do low jab HHS at stupid times and you’re good to go.
at worst low jab HHS provides easy strong pressure off a poke, builds meter, and leaves you in the exact same favorable position you started with.
I’m not going to waste time explaining why or why not it’s dangerous to move into c.jab range against certain characters cause you’ll find out by urself shortly. You’ll also find out why in general, it’s not worth the meter and chip to attempt to get in at that range, AGAINST CERTAIN CHARACTERS. There’s a ton of specific reasoning that is too long to list, but I know what I’m talking about cause I’ve been playing the shit out of this game since november, and have lost track of how many tournaments I’ve competed in.
In general, if you’re in certain character sweep ranges, it’s not worth attempting to c.jab at all since a little counter-hit against you can lead to terrible things. Specifically, trading against chun’s sweep, trading against a ryu dp fadc, eating balrog ex dash upper, etc etc is all possible when you venture into jab range.
By no means do I think jab xx fp hhs is bad, and I use c.lk, c.lp xx fp hhs, rh constantly (300+ dmg easily without charge), but I don’t use it in every match and that’s what I’m trying to tell everybody.
I dont know my fights with chun come down to the fact she cant stop me at all without a EX stock.
So for me its rush down city putting so much pressure on her there isnt much she can do about it. Thats where c.jab HHS or better yet short+c.jab HHS works like a charm when I am in her face because of how the far standing short works.
You then get her use to that and close.short again into C.jab+HHS makes her not want to do much of anything.
Not all chun’s play the same so what might work for you might fail miserably for me. In general, every time I tried to get on two of cali’s best chun’s, ricky and a_rival, they’d have the anti-air normal downs pat. I j.fp, they cr.mp, I jump roundhouse, they s.rh/dash back, I use j.mp, they use c.rh. It was ridiculous how good they were at spacing and shutting down jump-ins. So, I walked a lot and after attempting to get in on them, I’d eat s.rh, c.rh and s.fp like nuts when I attempted to get in close.
If i got too close, they’d use j.fp which normally sucks, but at certain ranges it beats both ex headbutt and lp headbutt clean. It was fucking bulllshit. Eventually, I just figured out it’s best to whiff oichios for meter then approach slowly from the ground, using safe headbutts and splashes.
It’s such a painfully slow process but it’s the only thing that worked.
pieguy, don’t worry about it. i had the same argument with him in the other thread.
if they’re playing against competition that lets them abuse crouch jab into hhs, then they’ll figure out eventually when they play vs better people.
the point is that we’re not saying crouching jab into hhs isn’t good. it is really good.
but it is not the best thing to do vs every character. there are a just a lot of different characters that you are better off fighting from outside their sweep range.
oh well though. i like to keep an open mind. i will try to abuse cr.jab into hhs more just to see how people react to it.
(the fact that you can reversal in between cr.jab and hhs tells me that it will probably be hard to abuse vs good players)
Enjoying the California elitist attitude! It’s taking me right back to 1999-2001 when I was first playing tournaments.
Must be tough to keep that attitude up after so many years of NYC domination tho…
It’s cool though – you two stick together and keep up the good work
////////////////
Anyway, in all seriousness – all I ever was trying to point out is that while much of the forum might say “oh low jab HHS is good etc,” I don’t feel like you guys actually know how strong it is once you can do it on command.
Obviously with every character, if you use one move to the exclusion of all others you are bound to be terrible. Soooo… don’t do that. But use it, and learn the situations where you want it. I can guarantee that those situations will come up much more often than you might expect.
Of course some matches it will be better than others. Blanka, for example, has a really hard time dealing with HHS pressure. But why not actually try it out? Instead of just resting on your imagined superior SF accomplishments and saying “oh yah i do this it’s OK but it’s bad for X Y Z reasons,” why not listen and give it the benefit of the doubt?
So there ya go. Yet another in-kind jerk statement, along with some more attempted discussion about honda.
You know what, I’m not even going to bother with this e-drama bullshit. All I’m going to say is you should probably read an entire post before you say anything cause it seems like you’re imagining a lot of shit. Not once did I say c.lp xx hhs was bad, and not once did I mention not using jabs vs anybody except chun and rog. I also didn’t say “california is superior” but if you wanna keep imagining shit like you have been, go for it.
It’s really ironic you mention the blanka match-up out of all of the cast cause I specifically told mr.snk that crouching jab was the best tool in honda’s arsenal against blanka in a huge PM. But whatever, keep making dumb assumptions cause logical posts don’t seem to help some people on thsi board.
It’s really great that you can do c.lp xx hhs consistently. So can I and so can a ton of honda’s on thsi board and online. It’s not that hard, and neither are all of the hhs combos once you figure out execution methods that suit your playstyle. Execution is the last thing to be bragging about on a SF board.
Arguing about this is stupid which is why I stopped posting on these forums instead “I disci I” I am going to invite you to a set of games vs me so I can show you some fun stuff.
Unfortunately I cant play vs “CrazyPi” although that would be fun…
i personally feel that east coast is as strong if not stronger than the west coast right now at sf4.
this has nothing to do with coasts. we’re all saying that crouch jab into hhs is good.
but you seem to be saying that it’s way better than we think it is because you assume that we don’t know how to do it.
you really think that you are one of the few honda players that can execute jab into hhs on command?
talk about elitism.
you really come off as thinking low jab into hhs doesn’t have any downfalls, which leads me to believe you don’t play against players who know how to counter it. that’s all i’m saying.
of course it has it’s uses. who doesn’t know that? but my original reply in the other thread was to your post that called your strategy “Operation Infinite HHS”.
so yeah, people somewhere might get the idea you are saying it’s ok to spam it.
Yeah fwiw the only reason I have continued this is also slow work days.
Anyway, it’s no big deal either way.
I was never saying that omg i am the best at execution – i certainly am not. I also do not assume I am “the only one” doing this. Of course not.
When I learned that hondas ‘best’ bnb was low jab HHS, I said oh well nevermind. After I saw it in action, I eventually got around to learning it – and it is MUCH stronger than I had initially thought.
**So, I figured that since it wasn’t getting all that much attention on this forum, why not post about it for people, like me, who thought it was more trouble than it was worth. **
About california, it was a joke. My whole family lives there (my uncle right now is currently evacuated from wildfires…), I was born there, etc… I just know that when I first started playing SF competitively, there was all this hilarious rivalry wc vs ec and so on… just was referencing that. As far as who is better now, who cares? Wait until a big tournament where everyone is well represented.
I did take some offense to a condescending attitude in posts like
"if they’re playing against competition that lets them abuse crouch jab into hhs, then they’ll figure out eventually when they play vs better people."
"I know what I’m talking about cause I’ve been playing the shit out of this game since november, and have lost track of how many tournaments I’ve competed in."
and so on.
Anyway, I suppose a lot of stuff got taken out of context — my intent was simply to raise awareness of just how powerful and essential this was for honda.
i can’t connect lp to hhs if my life depended on it maybe i don’t have the timing correct, but i do have an extremely easy time doing J. HK, MP, XX EX HHS
Go for it. Again, if you read my posts, I don’t think c.lp xx fp hhs is a bad idea at all. In fact, it’s fantastic against certain characters, especially those without invincible reversals. However, it shouldn’t be your only tool, and I’m sure most aren’t saying that it is.
There are a few ways to do it but the most common are c.lp~mp~hp, lp~hp or c.lp~mp~hp, mp~hp. I prefer lp~hp because there is less chance of an accidental ex hhs. Ex HHS is not as good as fp hhs due to the linkability of it and the fact that meter is often better spent on ex headbutt or super.
I’m down for any matches anytime. In your invite, just say you’re from srk so that I know.
maybe i don’t have the timing correct, but i do have an extremely easy time doing J. HK, MP, XX EX HHS 