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Adjusting to your opponents play style and forcing them to change their game.
Fuerte can punish every headbutt on block with U2, but itās position dependent. He canāt do it from midscreen (unless he blocks HP Headbutt standing). However, if you try and EX Headbutt out of a corner, prepare to eat 500 damage. Fuerte can punish MP and HP Headbutt on block midscreen with Ultra 1. Also donāt use Butt Splash against Fuerte when he has Ultra 2. I know the frame data says that LK and MK splash are -2 on block, but if he blocks it high on his hitbox, he gets an extra frame or two to punish you with.
A lot of people forget that Tostada Press (his splash) can be focus absorbed. If you see they like to spam it a lot, crumple that bitch and punish. If you block correctly, you can punish with st. RH. If you have the charge, you can punish with Ultra 1 . Ultra 1 will also always auto-correct against splashes but careful not to get baited out. EX Headbutt is your friend when he knocks you down; it beats splashes, slides and it canāt be safe tortillaād. However, like in any other match up, you are still susceptible to safe jumps and perfectly timed cross ups. Like Mr. SNK said in the match up thread, jump back fierce is good too. So cycle through focus attack, EX Headbutt and jump back fierce. Donāt roll the dice, pay attention to what Fuerte is doing and try to look for patterns. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of strategy goes into Fuerteās oki; the more you think, the easier it is for you to escape.
The neutral game is grossly in Hondaās favour. Fuerte canāt do shit. If you feel like turtling, just do jump back jab every time he runs at you. It will beat literally every option he has off his run. There are ways for him to counter this however; he can do a late splash, he can run stop Guacamole (extremely difficult) or run stop Ultra 1 (also extremely difficult). If you feel like approaching, just walk at him, he has no way of challenging walking because his normals suck. Donāt jump at him because he has a lot of ways to deal with this. If you see him run, jump back jab, then go back to walking.
When you knock him down, you have some good options. Ochio on his wake up will beat EX Back Run clean. You can also cross him up. If he tries to EX Guacamole out, you can hit it with a st. RH. If he absorbs your j. MK with an EX Back Run, neutral jump fierce. This will beat splash and tortilla. Eventually theyāll catch on and do EX Run, stop, air throw. Just wait for him to land and do cr. jab xx HP Hands.
Do:
- React
- Be patient and turtle (preferably)
- Abuse HP Hands
- Walk at Fuerte
- Jump back jab/fierce if you see him run
- Mix up into Ochio often
- Watch out for Ultras
Donāt:
- Jump
- Roll the dice
Great, a 500 word write up for the Fuerte match up when I have a 10 page essay to write. I definitely have my priorities straight. :razz: I hope this helps. I play a good Fuerte myself, so if anyone wants match up practice, shoot me a friend request on XBL and weāll play.
Very good writeup on fuerte. As playing a few decent fuertes in my time, most notablely Kai, paper, and Peru I would just like to add just a little bit. First off I think walkinG forward and using st hp is very good in this match and reacting to what he does. Jump back fp will beat out scrubby fuertes, but good ones will catch that gimmick everytime. The best way to get out of fuerteās mixups is with reactions. If you are deciding or trying to guess your way out, u will lose. Blocking splashes properly or reacting and jumping out of the throw is the best defense. On fuertes wakeup I would recommend normal throw over oicho as long as he doesnāt have meter. Fuerte can only dash, tech, or jump to get out of this. These all leave Honda in very favorable positions IMO. 
A lot of Fuerte players will try and approach with slides (even at high level), so walking forward and spacing st. fierce is great advice because youāll easily counter hit it for big damage. And youāre right, normal throw on Fuerteās wake up is probably the safest option you have, as long as he doesnāt have Ultra. Ochio can be good if you feel like you have a good read on them.
As far as reading/predicting Fuerteās mix ups, that just comes with experience. However, most Fuertes wonāt try extended oki on Honda, because the risk/reward is skewed in Hondaās favour. EX Headbutt is really too good against him. As a former Fuerte player, my gameplan in this match up was to get the life lead and just turtle it out. I canāt afford to trade, I canāt afford to guess wrong, so Iāll avoid all of that and just run away forever.
im gonna watch this video, please be worth my time crossing fingers
*edit GOOD STUFF +++++
Liked, faved, subscribed.
Thank you so much for this.
Just to clarify, are you doing cr. jab OS HP Hands as well as OS EX Headbutt? :looney:
Thats exactly what it is. OS Ex.hb isnāt that difficult. But HHS - OS Ultra is very difficult to do with perfect reversal timing so the ultra comes out on the first frame after the whiffed c.lp.
I understand how option selects work, but Iām having some trouble wrapping my head around how the HP Hands come out on hit or block, but an EX Headbutt comes out on whiff. Care to shed some light on your inputs please?
Hhs works that way. If u whiff a buffered hhs u only get the normal. When u make contact with either hit or block the slight stun causes your buffered special to cone out. Same concept with ryu buffering CR mk to hadoken
The Honda os buffers the hhs and the does hb. If hhs does come out hb wont because u are in a uncancellable animation (hhs) if hands donāt come out because the CR LP whiffs, the headbutt comes out
Thanks for the reply, but I understand how the option select works in theory, itās just putting it to practice. I mean, would the input be something like:
:db:+:lp::hp::mp::lp::hp::r:+:2p:
Thatās the part Iām confused about.
that exactly the input. For the HHS buffer you have to do your piano or slide very fast and very clean. Otherwise you will get HHS to come out even on whiff. That also why I canāt use c.lk xx HHS(low attack better than c.lp) to OS because the cancel frames and special buffer during recovery frames overlap, so HHS come out regardless. Iāll try to work on a vid to show my inputs but most of the breakdown of the various OSās are posted in other threads in here.
Awesome, thanks for the reply, Iāll get to practicing. Glad to hear that I guessed right on the inputs.
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Alright guys I couldnāt find an improvement thread so Iāll post this up here. This is me fighting a local Sagat, there are 4 videos the other ones are in the suggestions off to the side right on top. Before you watch Iād like to preface some things:
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Sound quality isnāt great, sorry for that.
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This is my first real Sagat experience with Honda because I picked up Honda when Super came out and all of the Sagats had migrated because he wasnāt #1 anymore. Apart from the odd online match against a good Sagat this is my first stuff.
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I made a couple of execution mistakes. Most of them pretty minor, but there were some times when I didnāt land a standing roundhouse after hands for some dumb reason, which is just damage that I shouldnāt have missed out on. I also dropped a really big opportunity to combo into super at one point by missing hands > hands. I can pick out this stuff though and definitely work on it. I also got hit with a few tu > fadc > throws which for some reason I have trouble teching.
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Sometimes I got antsy and went into scrub mode with wake up buttslams and predictable jump ins. I think I was pretty good most of the time, but itās such a patient match and I think sometimes I stopped thinking and just wanted to hit buttons, definitely something to address.
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Similar to the last two points, I didnāt want to respect his strings for some reason. I took way too much damage trying to sneak some hands or an ex headbutt in his block strings only to eat a combo that I could have blocked. This is where a lot of my health came from, so itās just another case of being more patient and not losing focus.
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Besides those things I have some matchup questions. Whenever Iām playing a zoner my game plan is always to push them to the corner. In this matchup though, Sagat was able to just push me back using tiger knees, something that I donāt really have to deal with in other zoning characters. I know that Sagatās knees were weakened, but he was hitting me with safe knees and it was really getting on my nerves because I had to play him in the center. I suspect there is some spacing tips I could use so that I could sit at the distances where Sagat canāt make his knees safe and I could keep him in the corner more. Overall though I donāt really know how to get around it to play the game that I want to play so tips are hella appreciated.
I thought u did well ninja. U jumped a lot in the second round. Im not as good as u but in this matchip I just walk my way up. Ducking high tiger shots and focus or block lows.also if u have back charge headbutt beats low tigershots. I always go for that
you jump too much, in round 2 you looked completely lost because he wasnāt letting you jump anymore. I know itās tempting and I struggle with this too, but walking forward is really a great thing
Remember, in super sagat has ass damage and ass normals, donāt be afraid to make guesses such as HP headbutt through a low fireball now and then, the gamble isnāt really in your favor but itās really annoying for him since he canāt really zone you out with high tigers only and heās gambling some of his life when he tries to chip you when youāre holding charge.
ya there is no need to be jumping into f. RH x 2 at all anymore, at worse neutral jump fierce his st rh and once you have the life lead sit back he obviously was throwing TS very predictably so you wait for a chance to headbutt a low oneā¦ at that point the sagat has to get in or time will expire
Thanks MR SNK for kicking my ass with HOnda. I appreciate you taking the time in between breakfast and washing your hands to beat my ass in 4 straight games super fast.
I guess if you want to relive the luls you can find those matches on my page
YouTube - guamcardsās Channel
We should really have a new sticky thread to put like amateur game play (i.e. this one) for critique and then one for videos of pro guys
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Best Honda on PSN
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AKUMAAAAAAAA!!!
when u hit with hhs on zangief, do you use your piano technique to get the following sets of hands? or are u just spamming like fp or something? just sounds different.