Honda thread

Classic Fighting Games Super Street Fighter II Turbo
201

I definitely agree with this. There was the OBVIOUS difference in CCC2 ST with the 4-frame lag compared to the arcade / PSX versions, as per the NKI testing. As far as REACTING on that, it’s pretty damn impressive, but very noticeable within Kusmondo’s fight scenes.

Out of curiosity, is there any data on hitboxes for honda? I’m having a hell of a fucking time fighitng Honda with Dhalsim and Bison. Blanka’s getting easier for me… but those two fights are just plain wrong for me.

And another question about Honda… I was playing somebody on GGPO last week who was using honda and he did a meaty c.mp and immediately orocho threw me. How is this done?

202

^^^^^^^^^^ facing right (using tekken format) 6,3+mp (or press*),2,1, Punch (or release*).

  • Denotes negitive edge.
203

Its just Honda’s game is set up that he HAS to jump straight up over FBs and the timing is insanely difficult and 1 more frame of Lag is considerable. Regardless the result would have been the same IMO. But i have seen Kusu play against top Ken players in japan and win go figure. If this had been played on ARC the result would have been the same just a much closer match.

204

Thank you. Is there any escape to this if done correclty?

205

yah, you can reversal back hop after low strong. but it’ll get beaten if he predicts it.

206

if you’re in the corner, that’s REALLY dangerous… but thanks. It’s seeming to work.

207

i was doing it on occasion this past weekend it can be reversaled but not by all characters. For example i was trying it on Sim but was getting throw just after the jab came out, there are very few frames of animation from when the jab comes out to when you release the button and this is when the reversal has to come out. For example bison cannot reversal from what i hear. He probably can but you have to grossly mistime the loop.

208

I’m pretty sure a well-timed Bison super can escape the loop everytime, but obviously he’s got to know exactly what he’s doing for it to happen.

209

Thanks to whoever gave me some neg feedback and said I suck at games. Honda is one of my mains and I’m pretty good with him. Hit me up on GGPO and I’ll show you who sucks.

210

Anyone can escape the corner ochio trap if you do it within their throwing range, which you probably will be because it’s hard and in some cases impossible to back up enough after a landed ochio to get out of your opponent’s throw range. Also, any character with an invincible reversal can hit your tick, although some characters like Boxer and DeeJay can’t do this either because their reversal has too many frames of startup and you can do a safe tick or because their reversal doesn’t hit Honda’s crouching jab. Dictator can get out of it with his super. As for Blanka, your best bet is to try to counterthrow, which is doable because of his huge throw range. Backdashing won’t help, you’ll still get thrown, and doing a ball won’t help because even if you hit Honda he’ll still be able to knock you down into the corner again and you won’t have gained anything.

Mixah I don’t think there are any online resources that have hitbox data, although hitboxes are available in that Yoga Book Hyper thingy. The best way to figure out how to beat Sim’s limbs etc is just to get experience with all of your moves against all of his.

Heh that’s funny about Kusumondo not doing well in mirror matches. In my opinion the Honda-Honda matchup is the least skill-intensive and most random matchup in the game, it’s really hard for even an extremely good Honda player to beat a much less experienced player in it (no offense intended Nothingness, but after all, Kusumondo is the best Honda player ever and way better than any of us here). Also too bad about the 1-frame delay, I definitely buy that that affected his play, and it would have been cool to see how he would have done without that handicap (which in my opinion hurts Honda a lot more than it does most characters, considering how reaction-based much of his game is). Although I agree with you guys, I don’t think he would have made it through both of the two best shoto players outside of Japan even if there had been no delay.

211

obviously 1 frame delay hurts huge. think about honda’s jab headbutt which is invincible for exactly 3 frames. Adding 1 frame delay to your use of jab headbutt can be monstrous.

and yes, I wouldn’t back hop in the corner. In the corner, definitely counterthrow.

But back hop does work vs. grabs. It’s invincible on startup. I’ve reversal backhopped out of gief tick setups midscreen. low roundhouse/grab mixup < back hop.

212

last time i played a gief that tried to tick me in the corner like that, he would whiff the spd and then do the 360 + K throw, that would grab me right out of it…

my buddy told me he was doing it just beacuse in case you tried that… guaranteed counter to the hop…

but this isn’t a gief or blanka thread. lol

213

Yup i agree with Ultra in this instance. All characters with a full superbar can escape it, also the range is the key if you are outside their throw range then it cannot be escaped. So when you got them in the corner make sure you are outside their Throw range. If you ever look at the yoga book look at the frame data and watch the start up timing of Hondas Bad matchups. see where you can manipulate your opp into doing early wakeups.
As for Kusomondo Don’t get me wrong he still got the best of everyone there. Most of his combos were not coming out that he usually did on his you tube matches, he was able to get out jumping RH into super and J.Fierce, C.short, Headbutt out a few times. but not his chains.
As for Dhalsim you need to jump in with Fierce, medium splash, short, and RH…keep him guessing. Baiting him is much better, fake a jump in and do full screen HB. this will leave him open and more than likely will be trying to counter a jump. I also saw Kuso stop Sim with Cshort on limbs. very odd looking.

214

Evo was a great time, I was surprised at how much Honda love there was going around. I had to move when I got back though so it took me a couple of days to get settled in, but I have the Internet now so I’ll have to try to get on GGPO some.

Ehonda: It was good meeting you. I’m sad that I missed out on the ST stuff but we went back to our room and all fell asleep. Next year for sure though.

I’m not sure who else I talked to, I met a lot of nice people though. I was the really tall guy.

Kusumondo was good, really good. He just had bad matchups in the finals. Anybody who got to see him play any other matches was able to see a lot more. I saw him do some crazy stuff but I’ll talk about it more later. I learned a lot though, I need to practice up for the next tournament I go to so I don’t make Honda look bad.

215

Anyone have any tips against Chun? Does Honda have anything that will beat or trade with her stupid priority air attacks in the air? How do you guys go about punishing or even surviving neck breaker shenanigans (reaaaaly hard to time reversal).

216

In the air? A well timed early jumping strong punch is your best bet, will trade or beat Chun’s jumping forward.

Don’t even try to reversal the neckbreaker unless Chun starts it late. Just learn which way to block and Ochio her after blocking. Be carefull you don’t mis-time it and eat Lightning Legs, though.

Main strat against Chun is to just let her walk back into her corner and throw fireballs. Be very patient and work your way up, trap her in the corner and Ochio her to death. If she trys jumping off back wall to get out knock her down with headbutt.

217

It seems Chun has tremendous frame advantage after a deep neckbreaker. Not nearly as much as in HF, but still enough to where if she decides to go for a throw I can’t seem to do anything but tech it and hope for the best.

And I still can’t block it correctly most of the time :frowning:

218

She still can’t throw you until your out of block stun and you can store your Ochio while blocking so that shouldn’t be a problem.

If you really want to get out of there a very well timed Roundhouse Sumo Smash will get you out but leave you open when you land - Chun can cr. Roundhouse you when you land, knock you down, and start the whole thing over again.

Best bet is still to block and either store Ochio or go for reversal jab headbutt.

219

Questions about Honda

1 Which one of his two cross-up - down mk and hk - is deep enough to force the challenger to a reverse blocking?

2 1000 hands with hp: I’ve read the thread and even watched a video and still I neither understand nor I can execute it. How should I input these hps in order to get the move?

3 Oicho loop: is it possible to begin it with a crouch mp instead of a cr. lp?

4 In case of challenger’s cross-up the oicho has to be restored again starting with the forward or is it possible to restore it with down, down back from the crouch position?

5 I need some advices about what to do after an oicho. Another oicho is impossible since Honda would be too far from the opponent. A good move is his buttslam but it’s not a good option against shotos who can intercept it with a reversal shoryu. The crouched hk and forward hk are slow and can be punished by a reversal. What is a good mix-up to maintain the pressure?

6 I’ve read in the Wiki that an eventual move doesn’t affect the oicho storage. While playing I’ve got the feeling that I needed to restore oicho every time I missed the throw and obtained a simple crouched punch. How is it possible that the game keeps the oicho stored if even the throw is missed and a punch button activated?

7 I’ve tried to use some Blanka’s tactics with Honda such as the ground cross-up with the headbutt and a short headbutt followed by a grab. But I realized the recovering time after the headbutt is too long and the opponent can easily punish Honda. Is this correct or the ground crossup has any use I can’t see?

8 Has Honda’s cr. hk any special property?

9 I’ve got serious problems to close basic combos such as Splash jump-in/st. lp/headbutt and Splash jump-in/
cr. lk/headbutt. I can combo the first two moves but I can’t finish the sequence with the headbutt.

The headbutt has to be necessarily made with the lp to close the combo?

And the cr. mk can be cancelled into the headbutt?

10 Let’s try to recap basic Honda’s combos from the Wiki and this thread:

a) Splash jump-in/cr. lk/headbutt

b) Jump-in/st. lp/headbutt

c) Deep Jump-in cross-up/ st. hk (3 hits)

d) Jump-in/st lp/st mp/ ? (1000 hands with mp or headbutt?)

e) Jump-in/cr lk/buttslam: does it combo?

f) Other suggestions?

220

I’ll answer the questions that I can because ST Honda is not my forte (I play Old Honda).

  1. I believe Honda’s down+MK is better for this.
  2. I’m pretty sure only the last button press has to be HP for an HP slap, so just make sure the last button you hit is HP. (hand slaps are 3-5 hits in quick succession. I think the number varies between games.)
  3. Honda… really can’t play like Blanka at all. From what I remember, the torpedo will immediately stop when it reaches an opponent, even if he’s on the ground.
  4. Not that I’m aware of, but I’m not the best person to answer stuff like that.