He built meter whiffing tatsus but just a tiny bit. I really should have said he managed his meter very well he seemed to be able to FADC slides once a round to scare me out of walking forwards and always have a bar for an ex tatsu
More possible balance tweaks I think main things I’d want is revert damage on ex hhs, revert ex headbutt nerf or give fully invincible ex oicho
These are some suggestion I have for tweaking Honda:
These are on my primary list. I also have concerns about EX Headbutt, but it is what it is and I can believe the majority of players requested this (pro and casuals alike).
Another slight thing on my mind is the fact that Honda can never apply pressure from his combos, AA headbutts or in any realistic way stun someone. It would be neat for example if the opponent didn’t fly across the screen away from us after we worked so hard getting in.
Your change list seems pretty fair. I don’t care about the ex headbutt nerf if we get some other stuff but we really didn’t get Fuck all in the last update.
Yo I discovered kind of a cool bait last night, so shikofumi (df hk) can be canceled into special moves, I think everyone
knows that. In the past I would bait dp’s by doing shikofumi fadc backwards for 2 bars but felt it was a bit if a waste. If you can cancel into ex hhs you can dodge the dp for just 1 bar and if you see they are not going for it you can move yourself back in
Shikofumi on its own is used to bypass DPs since Honda’s hurtboxes greatly shrink. It deceives your opponent thinking they can hit your limbs or body while in reality your hurtboxes get pushed back a lot. It’s why characters like Fei Long cannot DP you as a reversal when you do shikofumi on his wakeup after an oicho throw.
Cancelling Shikofumi into EX Hands just makes you vulnerable since u put your hurtboxes in front of you again. If you do EX Hands after the DP flies past you, then it might be even more troublesome. Depending on the character you’re dealing, they can land behind you and punish you greatly or they only lose 10 health since they’ll get hit by a single hit of EX Hands (which sends them flying full-screen).
I probably need to see your setup in action to get the full gist of it. Got any replays you could upload?
was playing around with it this morning, so it seems like it’s too slow to utilize off an oicho without getting DP’d, it seems to hit a reversal DP but yeah only 10 damage and 1 bar obviously not very worthwhile. i think i am cancelling to EX HHS as fast as humanly possible. but anyway i just noticed i didnt mention when i cancel to EX HHS i move honda backwards, i found this by accident i was going for cr mk xx ex HHS and got shikofumi xx ex HHS and tried to think of a useful way to use this. i suppose you could also do something like shikofumi xx mk or hk buttslam to possible fly behind them(lk gets stuffed by DP) but i think off an oicho they will always be able to DP you.
My brother’s Balrog shits on my Honda lately. This is mainly because Balrog can now punish EX Headbutt from any range with raw ultra.
Balrog’s U1 needs to be activated with punch. While in screen freeze you then switch and hold the kick buttons, this allows Rog to make his ultra start up faster.
Here are some notes I recently made against Elena:
Close MK
You can freely cl.MK on Elena’s wakeup with little to no worry. If she does wakeup EX DP, only 1 hit will connect and you can punish her from this point onward. Cl.MK is also cancellable to HHS.
These are your options from Oicho - cl.MK:
Dash + U2 – 500 dmg
Dash + L.oicho – 160 dmg
cr.HP – 140 dmg
HP Headbutt – 140 dmg (only if you dash after oicho to maintain charge)
Jab Hands only hits partially
Sadly, you can’t do a jumpin either since she recovers too fast
walkup oicho is slower than dash + L.oicho and doesn’t seem to work
M.oicho and H.oicho often whiff
Countering Elena’s b.throw > full healing:
She heals 345 health with full healing and 102 with the cancelled version
Good punishes:
Ultra 1
j.HP, st.HK = 200 dmg
j.HP, HHS xx Super = 480 dmg
extremely deep j.HP, st.HP xx super = 510 dmg
j.HP, HHS (4 hits) xx RFA = much dmg if u do ultra
Bad punishes:
j.HP, HHS = 175 dmg, last 2 hits whiff
j.HP, cr.LP xx HHS = 186 dmg, last 4 hits whiff
j.HP, cr.LP xx EX Hands = 222 dmg and u can’t follow it up
any other jump attack
j.HP, EX HHS whiffs
If Elena does short healing, you’re fucked.
combos
Works on a crouching Elena.
Works on standing and crouching Elena
So in preparation to a tournament that’s filled with Elenas, I had no choice but to really grind out the matchup in training mode. Since I thought it would be a waste not to share what I’ve found, I’m posting it here.
Blocking and punishing Elena’s bullshit
It’s alright if you decide to just guess what to do against her mixup instead of reacting to it, no one will blame you. However, you still need to know what to do once you manage to block SOMETHING, so here’s a little guide and rundown on what to do.
Her low special:
M lynx tail is a pain in the ass to punish. If she spaces it or does it off of a long blockstring (w or w/o crossup), then you can’t punish it on block with reversal oicho (it whiffs). If you try to punish it with cr.jab xx HHS, then you should know that 3-4 hits of the hands can whiff, making it punishable on hit for a total of 95-110 dmg. In a more rare case where lynx tail is in max range, cr.jab will just flatout whiff making this option less viable. The most consistent punishes you can do are reversal H/M Hands (9 frame startup) or st.HK (7 frame startup). From H.Hands you cover enough distance to even combo into st.HK for a total of 205 dmg and red focus combos.
H Lynx tail is very easy to punish because she pulls you in on block with the 4 hits (similar to Juri’s EX senpuusha). cr.LP xx Hands, cr.LP xx Headbutt, Raw Headbutt, Ultra I and II all work. HP Oicho will only whiff if lynx tail doesn’t fully connect.
EX Lynx tail is nearly unpunishable. If it’s used from point blank range, all hits will connect while she creates an absurd amount of pushback. The only things possible afaik is Reversal H Hands, but it won’t fully connect and is even punishable on hit. If she does it from farther away, not all hits of her lynx tail will connect making it impossible to buffer H Hands without getting counter hit.
TLDR;
For M Tail: Reversal Hands (205 dmg) and st.HK work regardless of range or spacing.
For H Tail: Everything works, even ultra
For EX Tail: Reversal Hands (3 hits) work when blocked point blank.
Her overhead special:
Mallet Smashes are annoying and I personally can hardly tell the visual difference between all the normal versions. So far this is what I do; If she does a mallet smash and it’s blocked, I either go for normal throw (140 dmg + pressure), L/H oicho (160-180) or cl.MK. If Elena does DP after a blocked H Mallet, oicho gets rekt, but if I did cl.MK (5fr startup) then I will only get 1 hit of the DP and can then punish accordingly. cl.MK xx HP Headbutt (230 dmg) is also a frame perfect punish against all mallets except Heavy version.
http://i.imgur.com/WSm93c1.gif
Punish EX mallet with oicho. You need to be fast though, because the 2nd hit can still hit you while you’re crouching or buffering the oicho. Stay patient and don’t buffer it too early.
Closure
cl.MK is a pretty important tool in this matchup, since you can also buffer cl.MK to hands on her wakeup for scary pressure. Sadly, I can’t do it consistently at all.
please help with Juri matchup
heres SNK defeating Juicebox
I think I need to play this matchup more like Chun Li. 1 thing i didnt realize is honda can go HHS > EX buttslam for sick damage and setup. i know i can safely pressure her wakeup with cr jab meaty and bait out the reversal. another thing i noticed is SNK stands full screen and builds meter which sort of forces juri to walk forwards a bit because the fireball wont reach you. seems like there is a safe distance where if shes close enough when she stores fuhajin you can headbutt the recovery or just jump in on read. anything else I should know ??? i am gonna try to avoid teching so much because i have been seriously blown up for big damage on her frame traps.
i need to hit the lab and work on punishes too atm i just know ultra 1 can punish bad divekicks and ex pinwheel. u1 through fuhajin seems impossible but i know ive done it before. i dont think its worth the risk / reweard.
Hi. I’m making a match-up post in a few character forums because I’m looking to run some sets. I’m a US, East Coast ER player. I don’t play ranked but I usually give or take in sets with players 3.3kpp to 4kpp for what it’s worth.
E. Honda gives me a bit of trouble when i run into a good one, so please add Dragon Metsu on 360 or DragonMetsu on ps4 (I say ps4 because I do not own a ps3 copy of the game). Feedback after the sets (win or lose) is appreciated.
T. Hawk stuff
EX Oicho is a good tool against T. Hawk because he has little options against specials that are throw invincible, besides backdashing and jumping.
His MP DP however does 2 hits and is throw invincible on startup. On paper this sounds like it would be a good wakeup counter against EX Oicho. Oddly enough though, something similar like Emena’s lynx tail happened. Only the first hit damages Honda and the 2nd hit whiffs, this allows Honda to punish T. Hawk on recovery.
This happened in a tournament so I wasn’t really prepared to do the best punish ever.
Dealing with Rolento’s (T)rolls
First of all, you should all know that his hurtboxes and hitboxes keep rotating while he’s rolling. He can be easily stuffed when his hurtboxes are in front of his hitboxes, and is almost impossible to stuff when it’s the other way around.
The smartest thing to do is to whiff punish it with st. HK when Rolento does it from fullscreen.
If you’re midscreen and Rolento does the roll, then the following information is worthwhile to know.
Rolento in his best roll condition (back towards you, feet up)
http://i.imgur.com/y3E8X4v.png
Rolento in his worst roll condition (face and feet towards you)
http://i.imgur.com/EM6ECPE.png
Studying and making use when exactly his hurtboxes are way infront of his hitboxes and capitalizing on it is a pain in the ass to go indepth for.
Instead, let’s find the normals that stuff Rolento even in his best condition for consistency.
Ranked from best to worst
cr.LP
This normal stuffs all rolls free and has good active frames
cr.HP
This normal has quite a bit of startup, but it does a ton of damage, has great hitboxes and reks all rolls for free.
cr.LK
Can stuff all rolls, but it doesn’t have as much range as cr.LP and also doesn’t have as many active frames.
cr.HK
This normal stuffs 50% of the rolls and the other 50% is usually a trade. It’s also hard to time
Dealing with Seth’s Ultra 1
Seth’s U1 is a pain in the ass. There’s always some oddity to it and I thought it was almost impossible to punish this braindead option. Down the line I just gave up and forgot to actually test anything consistent to this.
My interest got sparked again due to the common appearance of Seth players in online tournaments and also my brother’s decision to jump forward with Guile when Seth does random U1 from fullscreen.
I’m like “yo wtf, how come you didn’t get hit by his ultra when you jumped forward?”.
To my surprise, only Honda often gets hit from nearly everywhere in the screen when he jumps forward or backwards, this is mainly because Honda has a big head. When he jumps forward and makes his acrobatic flip, Seth’s Ultra always catches Honda’s head when he’s upside down.
So, in order to advance and punish Seth’s bs, you have several options to not get hit by his U1 and avoid being upside-down or extending your hurtboxes by forward jumping:
What shouldn’t you do
Don’t try to be a smarty pants and blow through it with U1. From point blank, Seth’s completely invincible to all your stuff. From fullscreen to midscreen it is possible but very hard to do. You need to time U1 just right so you make complete use of your 11fr invincibility. If you do it too early, Seth’s hitbox will catch your legs and he’ll nomnomnom you right up.
In a nutshell:
