I kinda disagree with the matchup strategy vs hakan (i’ve been secondary-ing hakan since super came out now).
drykan absolutely crumbles to block string pressure. when un-oiled, pressure is the best possible option. Frame traps/jab strings into hands, mixed with crossups shut him down completely, he has no answer to frame traps. s.lp, c.lk, c.lp followed with hands/s.lp, c.lp, hands/throw/crossup mixups absolutely destroy him. If you give him full screen space by turtling, he has opportunity to lk oil, which turns into…
Oilkan is a completely different game- all jump ins are completely shut down by focus->dnc-> lk (other than empty jump throw). As are block string pressure by his ex grab. Also, his toward-RH IS safe on block, if spaced correctly- i would recommend jumping back or ex-hb after being hit, a common oilkan tactic is toward-rh/ex throw (which beats your on-comming jab hands). My advice here is just to just stall him, his actual combos are really nothing to be afraid of- and the only one that can knock you down is very un-safe. Don’t be afraid to jump back or exhb a lot once he is in, as the majority of his damage comes from his grab. run away and wait for his attempts to re-oil, then punish with hb.
another thing to look out for: DDT setups from both versions of hakan are becoming more popular. If knocked down, hakan can use his 360k to grab you during your stand up frames, even if you are crouching. The best thing honda can do to beat it is to exit your knockdown with immediate crouching moves to beat it, you can also backdash, but 360k will beat it if delayed(or timed incorrectly, which happens often).
I’d say the matchup is 7/3 or 8/2 vs drykan. 4/6 vs oilkan. The matchup boils down to being able to prevent hakan from oiling, which for honda is not hard, so overall my guess right now would be 6/4 hondas favor.
I know I am going to sound ignorant for this by roundhouse you mean the kick right? Also this dude I play just stands back and stores he kick like the whole round and if I try to go in he releases it either up or down. I need to find away around that mess.
Yes, roundhouse is heavy kick. Not saying anything, but how did you not know that?! lol.
Anyways, yeah good juri’s who know how to store fireballs well can be a real pain. You just have to think of it from their point of view. They always want the anti air one stored for when you jump in so just neutral jump to make it whiff then she’s pretty much a free jumpin with j.mp. All she has is ex pinwheel which wont hit many times (although its pushes you really far back, resetting the situation) but if she has no ex, its just cr.hp which only really works if you mis-space your jumpin. Get over her head and j.mp > cr.jab xx HHS.
Watch out for her counter move and divekicks though, good juri’s will backdash divekick or reaction to a poorly timed jump.
Funnily, a simple full screen hp hb or ex hb can catch a juri if they get sloppy storing their fireballs. Some like to put on a little show for you with purple shit flying everywhere. Don’t be intimidated, just hb that shit.
Apart from that damn air fireball of hers, she’s dealt with just like any other fireball char. Any juri worth their salt wont be throwing those floor skimmers any closer than 3/4 screen (its just asking for hb) so its just the mid ones. Focus backdash/forward dash, nj.fp or bulldog your way in.
Hope this helps. Not played many good juri’s myself.
Maybe of that guy CATGIRL from top of Europe leaderbooards would show his face, guy has 25,000bp and 8,000pp. Not that the points matter but gotta be better than 90% of juri’s which i play that just pinwheel/divekick spam.
Obviously the tips above are from playing good ones so hope this helps.
Thanks a lot man I knew about roundhouse but I had a brain fart lol it happens when your close to 40. Lots of good info here I will put it to the test and the guy I play has a great Juri.
Dhalsim, Guile, and Balrog are my most match ups. I played at Guard Crush tourney in Brooklyn yesterday and I lost to Dieminion and Adnan.
Dieminion destroyed me easily. I couldn’t jump in. He countered headbutt with flash kick every time. I couldn’t even get him into the corner. The booms came out like they were bullets out of an SMG. It was the worst match I had ever played since super came out.
Adnan’s Dhalsim is pretty basic but he plays it well. He stopped all my buttslams with back roundhouse. HE AA’d almost every jump in attempt I made. He also kept me at bay with standing fierce.
I’ve looked into these match ups and I still don’t know what are the best options in approaching these two characters.
With Sim, you just have to be on his ass and don’t let him get into the groove with his set ups… If you watch how Akimo plays vs sim, he rushes down on sim hard and jumps in with j.strong then just never misses hand slap combos… Just don’t let sim control the space, don’t play too slow because that’s what sim wants… so when u see an opening rush in and stay on him all the way through…
all you need in this match is some patience and your hand combos down for max dmg…
Guile is the same situation I find… Patience and look for the right openings, know your spacing well and jump in when the time is right… once guile is down he’s all yours.
Agreed with everything you said.
I don’t know if its just me or what but the Sim match up seems completely different than the last game. I had to rush down a Sim yesterday fir the first time ever. Guile is obviously different but most people I play use him the same way he was used in SF4 classic (i don’t like saying vanilla lol)
ok, I’ve been wondering about this since vanilla and it still applies, so
suppose, without loss of generality, ryu randomly jump ins and presses fierce, spacing it near your head. normally this is a free jab/ex hb - but let’s say ryu does xup tatsu instead. regardless of which headbutt you use, ryu’s leg will smack honda’s and beat the AA clean.
now here’s the kicker. jesus chop rapes air tatsus. but the chop isn’t so godlike anymore when you try to AA conventional normals like ryu’s j.fp or j.rh.
then my question is: does honda have an option that beats both approaches? is there some delicate spacing where I can hb and stuff both possibilities without looking like an idiot when ryu empty jumps? should I go air-to-air? try for early counter-hit chops? etc.
incidentally this also applies to ken and koomz. dunno about the rest of the honda forum, but ryu and ken are problem matchups for me, so any musings would be appreciated.
edit: for that matter… how do you guys deal with other problem jumpins? seth/rufus/cammy divekick, for instance. seth particularly confuses me.
Jump back strong jumpins that are close enough to cross you up. For different dive kicks, if my back is not too close to the corner, I walk back slightly and use standing fierce.
In short, I believe the lp. HB beats all Ryus jumpins clean, but there’s two caveats:
Do the HB as late as possible.
Try and space him as much in front of you as you can.
That ambiguous cross-up stuff is tougher to defend.
LP HB seems to work better as an AA against Chun, Boxer, Sakura’s problem jump-ins for EX. In fact, I can’t really see a downside to using LP all the time for AA.
EDIT: Didn’t see you ask about those jumpins. LP HB crushes Cammy’s bullshit easily. Seth and Rufus are just assholes. I’d like to know how to stop especially Rufus (although you can beat dive kick with LP HB if he’s far enough in front of you and you time it late.)
if you manage to find a reliable way to AA a shoto when they jump on you the second you lose charge to gain ground, i’ll show you how to give U2 the range of Gief’s U1.
Otherwise its a backdash or block.
As for the mixup between normal jump in and cross up ex tatsu, practice your AC ex hb.
I don’t see how you can make U2 have the same range as Gief’s U1. I’ve started using focus as an AA option. It’s bad to use on cross up jump ins because he dashes too slow. Besides that I just block or AA with lp HB.
I don’t see how you can make U2 have the same range as Gief’s U1. I’ve started using focus as an AA option. It’s bad to use on cross up jump ins because he dashes too slow. Besides that I just block or AA with lp HB.
This is to all honda players… If you want to AA anything except rufus’ dive kick just AC headbutt… jb. strong on seth if you want to AA (i personally like to block it cause then you have the guy with 750 hp right in ur face)… Lp. HB cammy’s dive kick with caution (ex hb is much preferred if you can spare the meter)! you can beat it with proper timing, but that timing is really close to her timing of stuffing you with a C.H. dive kick, cr. fp, cr. mk xx hk drill for fat dmg and stun.
on a side note: if you’re having probs with seth jumping at you, you’re not making him respect you. With honda you have to make people waiver their resolve to jump. Put the fear of the headbutt into them. after 1 or 2 HBs the seth will do 1 of 2 things: A) Realize honda does a shit ton of dmg and turtle up (then you have a whole other set of probs), or B) Die because the player is a scrub. Lets keep our fingers crossed for B, because onlinetony is not fun to play in a tourney
This wins the entire conversation. Of course you use HB if you have charge. If you have charge and the player is jumping in on you, make them respect your HB.
In footsies without charge if you dont have time for jb. strong or the chop to start up you block. Most solid players look for when you lose you charge to begin an attack string.
Hakan being oiled doesn’t change his startup or recovery. Towards + Roundhouse is still -5 on block and always punishable by low jab hands to push him out. Obviously it doesn’t get the full damage because if it’s spaced to max range honda hits with the tip of his jab, but honda can still punish it every time.
In training mode an early nj.hk would stuff shoto j.rh (the nj.hk is where he pushes out his belly). I’ve also had pretty good results using it close in against demon flip dive kicks, not sure how it’ll fare against non-demon flip dive kicks.
