Does cr. LP xx H. Hands - cr. MK xx H. Hb still work on blanka? He always seems too far after hands…
I was playing against some Ryu yesterday, and 8 out of 10 times my HK wiffed after hands. I wasnt very far when starting my cr.lp hands either… Is this a thing i need to be careful about?
yeah same thing vs. guile i noticed… i actualyl get pretty nervous whiffing hands against ryu 9/10 he can sweep you if he blocks a hhs which leads to solid mixup for him so i am trying to do cr mk to headbutt instead it does more damage anyway. but i still am doing hhs mostly against ryu but i know my distances really well now whether my hk will whiff or not and whether he can sweep my blocked hands or not (then i get free hp headbutt to beat the sweep)
So it’s been reported recently by Zhi that red focus causes crumple with this example given; "You can now combo red focus cancel into crumple. E.g. Ryu st. hp -> cancel red focus level 1 (crumple) -> ultra = combo"
it seems red focus inclusion from hands can do more damage than I initially thought.
This is assuming you have a full stocked ultra, that red focus does x1.5 dmg of regular focus attack lvl 1 and is concidered 2 moves in a combo counter.
c.lp (40), f.hhs (154), ex rfa (12070%), ultra 1 (348~510*50%)
= 358~439
c.lp (40), f.hhs(157), f.hhs (15480%), ex rfa (12060%?), ultra 1 (348~510*40%)
= 405~469
j.mk (90), c.lp (40), f.hhs(15480%), ex rfa (12060%?), ultra 1 (348~51040%)
= 390~454
j.mk (90), c.lp (40), f.hhs(15780%), f.hhs (15470%), ex rfa (12050%), ultra 1(348~51030%)
= 421~469
c.lp (40), f.hhs(154), super(40080%)
= 420
c.lp (40), f.hhs(157), f.hhs(15480%), super(40070%)
= 473
I might sometimes go more for the red focus version since it can do more damage at the cost for your ultra meter, but it also guarantees corner carry and safejump/crossup/fake setups if you have them post ultra.
It could be that I might be wrong about the damage, it’s my first time theorizing like this, besides that, any thoughts?
Also if Ultra 1 has, let’s say, 2 frames faster startup, what does this mean in terms of comboing into it?
That would be… interesting. But how much meter uses the rfa cancel ? same as regular Fa ? (2 bars) ? Standard RFA will use 2 bars, but when canceling a move with it, it will cost the same meter ?
As for U1 having 2 fr faster start up - that means U1 would have 9 fr start up. Hp Hands is +10 on hit, which means we should be able to do cr Lp xx Hands - U1.
That would be awesome, but I kinda doubt they will give us a combo into ultra. I’m afraid Capcom will do something to prevent this. But who knows, maybe we are lucky…
Hm, according zhi cancelling something into red focus would cost a total of 4 meter bars (a full super bar)
Yea, it’s a thing. Gutabo also mentioned this problem in one of his vids
at the 20second mark.
haha that would be so strong although you can get it off MP ext. hands already against a few guys so its not that crazy of an idea… edit- how much dmg do yuo think it would do? if that is a new possibility then i am guessing they are gnna nerf damage hard.
hhs RF into ultra would still do more damage so i mean if its to close off a game you might as well get the extra 50 dmg, you would have lost your super bar anyway and chances are you arent going to risk ultra that late in the game anyway might as well spend that revenge gauge for the extra dmg
Based on the current dmg - cr Lp xx Hp Hands - U1 = 502 dmg. Lol. It would prob. be the most damaging hit confirm into ultra. Most certainly, if they decide to give us this combo, the dmg for U1 will be nerfed significantly.
If they nerf the dmg with 60 points (so U1 would have 450 dmg), then cr lp xx hands - U1 = 460 dmg.
Maybe if they make Hands-U1 a 1 frame link, then this might be a possibility. This way the combo would be really difficult.
So: Ultra 1 = reduce start up by 1 frame (= 10), increase the traveling speed after the animation, and reduce the dmg by 60 points (= 450). Sweet, haha.
But what I’m afraid is that they might reduce the hitstun for Hp Hands so we can’t combo into U1, which would mean we no longer would be able to do Hands-Hands and Hands-Ex Hands links. That would be sad.
hands-hands i like it builds a ton of meter and sometimes i missed my charge on a super confirm and it gives me a second chance to hit it (for more dmg) but hands - ex hands i dont like to be honest i prefer saving meter for all other moves… i like the idea of being able to damage so easily into ultra but i feel it doesnt fit honda’s archetype and i want him to lose a few frames on the startup to better beat fireballs… this is gonna be tricky for them to balance. are hands-hands 1f links at the moment though? i thought you had a few more give or take depending on the character. some you can’t do at all right now anyway.
Having an USF4 mod downloaded (that only affects the ultra startup frames), I was able to do the following combos on the cast, take note, though that all combos have been performed from a jump-in.:
(1) : (jump), s.LP xx H.HHS, U1 - 502 dmg
(2) : (jump), s.MP xx H.HHS, U1 - 492 dmg
(3) : (jump), c.MK xx H.HHS, U1 - 542 dmg
(4) : (jump), c.LP xx H.HHS, U1 - 502 dmg
(5) : (jump), c.LK, c.lp xx H.HHS, U1 - 460 dmg
(1,2,3,4,5):
Abel (both), Adon(cr), Akuma (both), Balrog (both), Blanka (both), C.Viper (cr), Cammy (both), Chun (cr), Cody (cr), Dan (cr),
Deejay (both), Dhalsim (both), Dudley (st), E.Ryu (cr), El Fuerte (cr), Fei Long (cr), Gen (cr), Gouken (both), Guile (both), Guy (both), Hakan (both),
Ibuki (cr), Juri (both), Ken (cr), M.Bison (cr), Makoto (both), Oni (both), Rose (cr), Rufus (both), Ryu (cr), Sagat (cr), Sakura (cr), Seth (cr),
T.Hawk (both), Vega (both), Yang (both), Yun (both), Zangief (both)
(1,2,4,5): El Fuerte (st)
(1,2,3): E.Honda (st), M.Bison (st), Sagat (st), Seth (st)
(1,2): Rose (st)
(2,3): E.Honda (cr), Dudley (cr)
(2): Chun (st)
per character list
Spoiler
(1) : (jump), s.LP xx H.HHS, U1 - 502 dmg
(2) : (jump), s.MP xx H.HHS, U1 - 492 dmg
(3) : (jump), c.MK xx H.HHS, U1 - 542 dmg
(4) : (jump), c.LP xx H.HHS, U1 - 502 dmg
(5) : (jump), c.LK, c.lp xx H.HHS, U1 - 460 dmg
Abel st. (all)
Abel cr. (all)
Adon st. (none)
Adon cr. (all)
Akuma st. (all)
Akuma cr. (all)
Balrog st. (all)
Balrog cr. (all)
Blanka st. (all)
Blanka cr. (all)
C.Viper st. (none)
C.Viper cr. (all)
Cammy st. (all)
Cammy cr. (all)
Chun st. (2)
Chun cr. (all)
Cody st. (none)
Cody cr. (all)
Dan st. (none)
Dan cr. (all)
Deejay st. (all)
Deejay cr. (all)
Dhalsim st. (all)
Dhalsim cr. (all)
Dudley st. (all)
Dudley cr. (2,3)
E.Honda st. (1,2,3)
E.Honda cr. (2,3)
E.Ryu st. (none)
E.Ryu cr. (all)
El Fuerte st. (1,2,4,5)
El Fuerte cr. (all)
Fei Long st. (none)
Fei Long cr. (all)
Gen st. (none)
Gen cr. (all)
Gouken st. (all)
Gouken cr. (all)
Guile st. (all)
Guile cr. (all)
Guy st. (all)
Guy cr. (all)
Hakan st. (all)
Hakan cr. (all)
Ibuki st. (none)
Ibuki cr. (all)
Juri st. (all)
Juri cr. (all)
Ken st. (none)
Ken cr. (all)
M.Bison st. (1,2,3)
M.Bison cr. (all)
Makoto st. (all)
Makoto cr. (all)
Oni st. (all)
Oni cr. (all)
Rose st. (1,2)
Rose cr. (all)
Rufus st. (all)
Rufufs cr. (all)
Ryu st. (none)
Ryu cr.(all)
Sagat st. (1,2,3)
Sagat cr. (all)
Sakura st. (none)
Sakura cr. (all)
Seth st. (1,2,3)
Seth cr. (all)
T.Hawk st. (all)
T.Hawk cr. (all)
Vega st. (all)
Vega cr. (all)
Yang st. (all)
Yang cr. (all)
Yun st. (all)
Yun cr. (all)
Zangief st. (all)
Zangief cr. (all)
Wow, this is excellent stuff, Angerus. So the combos works on basically everybody when crouching (except Honda and Dudley - but even ag them some works), and on 22 characters while standing. On 5 of them some of the combos works while standing.
It works all the time against some of Honda worst matches - Guile, Sim, Akuma, Gouken, which is great. Also, ag Vega and Rog.
@Angerus: can check if you can do the cr Lp xx Hands - ultra combo without a jump in ? or you need a jump in ?
Also - how easy do you feel is the link ? is it difficult to pull it out ?
cr.lp xx hands, ultra works pretty well and consistent on crouching opponents.
The difficulty and consistency to pull it off seems to depend on what character you perform it on.
It’s usually easy on crouching characters (with a 2-3 frame window), but can be a lot trickier on standing opponents (where it usually has a 1frame window).
ofcourse there’s also extended hands, but I imagine it would work on anyone where extended hands connects fully.
wow thats gonna be amazing we will actually use our ultra a lot. going through fireballs is gonna be so much easier. u2 gonna be godlike, i hope we dont get that ex headbutt nerf then we gonna be good. red focus and delay wakeup gonna kill the vortex characters, honda easily top tier even with the nerf.
zangief has ultra 1, chun li has fast startup ultra 1. Abel has invincible throws. They are not top tiers. Those top tier characters have a higher damage combos and a safe way to get into the characters with option selects. Like cammy, fei long, akuma, sakura, sagat, seth, yen and ryu etc. For eg. While sakura jumps in(or using hurriance kick or uppercut cancel), she can use throw or hurriance kick to os you. If hurriance kick is hit, it can link with high damage combos into ultra. Honda does not has this kinds of things, it can say, honda is improved, upgrade into mid tier level. Previously honda is very boring, it will have a lot of funs and require more technics to play afterwards.
Yeah man, I hear ya for sure. I agree, like a lot of the time you have to just out turtle and play the clock so it would be nice if honda had some better offensive options. he is getting a better mixup though in the end. it sounds like he is getting some of the buffs removed now too though so i doubt he will be top tier, probably solid mid tier like guile or ryu
What buffs are removed ? Oh man…
Aww shit!
I was completely content with how Honda was in the latest build.
The improved j.mp is the tool that will help in our bad matchups, coupled with ex oicho being invincible. Fuck Ryu and his srk OS on our wakeup after sweep, block or U1 are our only options…
when i said buffs removed i was referring to hhs xx ultra
was just thinking though the fact we get 1 extra frame startup still that means ext. hands will possibly hit in a few more situations now. would be cool if they could make ex hands +9 but i guess that wouldn’t work with the way the move works (moves you back when holding back)
what would have been awesome if they could have redesigned the entire move of ex hhs and made it so you never go backwards its just like an even better version of fp hhs that you could link into ultra.