I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable,
I sound my barbaric YAWP over the roofs of the world.
-Walt Whitman
Don’t put all ur trust in training mode blitz. With com all block I’ve done kens cr.mp,cr.hk and sometimes it says 2 hit combo sometimes it doesn’t. Even when the message doesn’t appear the com doesn’t block the cr.hk
Sry meant auto block
Coth, check my FAQ. Shotos can link and combo cr.:mp: to cr.:hk: pretty easily. Cr.:mp: is easily their most linkable move.
? Did you read my post? or are you saying a link wouldn’t show up on the combo counter?
Oh wait…you’re saying that the combo counter is glitching, huh? Silly me. That’s what I get for skimming your post.
Good stuff Rufus. = J
Sometimes when you do 2 combos back to back really fast, or if you get a reversal attack message or first attack message, and you do a combo before the message has disappeared, then you won’t get the combo counter. Like if you do cr Short x 2 and then cr Short x 2 back to back, you won’t get the 2nd 2 hit combo message. But if you’re waiting for the combo message to disappear before doing another combo, and it’s still not registering a cr Strong, cr RH combo sometimes, then that is REALLY WEIRD, cuz that’s never happened to me.
Have you tried cr Short, cr RH though? That combo will NEVER get a 2 hit combo message on the auto block dummy, no matter how long you wait. And I’ve done that combo not only in training mode, but vs human opponents in online and offline matches too.
By “knockup” do you mean the period after a hit but before the character lands on the ground (example: Shoryuken hits)? If so, I agree that some characters hit the ground after a knockdown faster than some others, generally the fast jump characters are faster. But I’m not aware of any empirical evidence anywhere that says this. Also, some characters have a shorter knockdown time after Zangief’s SPD in the corner, such as Chun Li. She just seems to “stick to the wall” and not bounce back up as high as she normally would out of the corner, therefore shortening her knockdown time.
If by “knockup” you mean when a character has teched a throw or been hit out of the air with a normal, then you’re talking about a reset. And, I don’t think resets give 13 frames of throw invincibility the same way knockdowns do. But again, I’m not aware of any empirical evidence anywhere that says this either, so I could be wrong.
I’ll do another test again soon just to be sure.
The combo counter does glitch, I did Blanka’s s.mp, c.hk link and both hits landed while dummy was set on autoblock but a message never came up…
We should test it in the vs mode too just to make sure it isn’t isolated to training mode. Y’know for general info and stuff.
Someone might think they aren’t comboing properly even if they are.
Maj tested this and came to the conclusion that HDR autoblock is faulty.
If I compare, for example, the diagonal jump air time with frame advantage for Honda’s FP throw, Zangief, Dhalsim, Vega(Claw) and Blanka have large variations, but there rest are all very close to the same. All four of those have unusal jumps - so it’s probably some kind of momentum system at work.
There’s definitely throw immunity after throws that don’t knock down (like all of the mash throws).
Well there yah go.
Sorry about necroing this thread, but I figured it would be the most appropriate place for this. After someone mentioned comboing off of Fei’s Chicken Wing, I looked at the frame data for some of Chun’s special moves and, by the accepted numbers, you should be able to combo a cr. jab after a grounded short SBK or a short LL. The problem is, it doesn’t seem like these two moves have 20 frames of hit stun.
On speed 0 against Ken, going frame by frame:
LK LL:
Hit with first frame of last hit of LL
15 frames of hit pause for Chun
1 additional frame of hit pause for Ken because it is the first hit
1 more active frame for Chun
4 frames of recovery
2 frames before I hit cr. jab
3 frames of start up
1 active frame where the jab should have hit but didn’t (LL hitstun makes the target invincible to the jab, apparently)
Ken is hit by jab because he was set to no block
So, short Lightning Legs causes 11 frames of hit stun. I’m going to assume that Lightning Legs and Hundred Hand Slaps are special-case special moves and were specifically set to have different hit stun.
Grounded LK SBK:
Last hit of SBK hits
15 frames of hit pause for Chun
1 frame of additional hit pause for Ken because it’s the first hit
15 additional frames of recovery for Chun (Meanwhile, Ken recovers after 12 frames of hitstun.)
After 4 frames, Ken returns to his idle animation, with plenty of time to block the follow-up cr. jab
So, short SBK causes 12 frames of hitstun. I have a theory that the game engine thinks that the new SBK is a super, which is the reason it can juggle 5 times, so this might be the hit-stun number for supers.
You’re right Cauldrath, Lightning Legs and Slaps do cause less hitstun than blockstun. This is why a player can always block after getting hit or even reversal attack. This is why those attacks will never combo. IDK about SBK’s hitstun, but interesting theory about the game seeing it as a Super. The reason I didn’t put in a note about Legs and Slaps is cuz no one has captured exactly how much hitstun they cause. If somebody could capture this data, I would definitely update the 1st post and the Wiki…
As for Ryu’s Super hitstun, oldschool_BR recently posted in the ST Ryu thread that it causes 11 frames of hitstun.
I put the video I captured on FileFront. It was originally 480i, so deinterlacing it makes some of the frames blend together a little.
I was under the impression that the reason Lightning Legs and Hundred Hand Slap will never combo with themselves is because the hitstun they cause is invincible. If it was only because of reduced hitstun, then the roundhouse version of Lightning Legs wouldn’t be able to have more than 1 frame of hitstun, and short would have, at most, 7. Even with those numbers, if your initial hit was with Lightning Legs, the second hit would still combo because of the extra frame of hit pause.
As for SBK, there are 11 frames where Ken is reeling from the attack, but from testing Fei Long’s Chicken Wing into cr. jab combo, I know that the first frame where he changes animations is still vulnerable and a hit will bring up the combo counter. I kind of made the assumption that the same was true here, so it could be 11.
EDIT: Looking at it again, the LL hit stun ends when the reeling animation ends, so I guess it’s likely the same is true for SBK.
Back on the HF XBox forums one of the users posted this image:
http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/3445/sf2hfthrowabspx6.png
It’s great because it indicates the distance of a throw not from each characters center point, but from their physical overlap boundary. (the boundary is that point where two characters walking into each other bump into another character and can’t get any closer)
In addition, it lists the knockback distance for moves.
Together, one is able to figure out how they can use attack strings to set-up throws. They know which strings push them too far away, and they know which strings push them to a distance that they can throw from but is outside their opponent’s throw range.
Anyone know how we can generate this data for ST/HDR?
It would be great to know the distance from each characters center to their physical boundary. And to know the knockback distance for standard move set-ups.
I can use the NKI HF vs. ST data. Subtracting the listed Absolute Throw Range from the HF Throw Range (to get the character boundary), then taking that number and subtracting it from the ST throw range for each character. But is that legit? Also, that won’t help me with Cammy, T.Hawk, Dee Jay, Fei Long.
The guy who did the ST hitbox stuff…Xenozip, Dammit, or Felinki I think, basically has all the work done. It’s a question of recording and formatting.