Oh, I just heard more, that it doesn’t work in Super, but that it does work in MvC3 :\
Hopefully it gets patched, then.
Hitbox?
More like Cheatbox.
It is Capcoms fault but still Hitbox should be banned for MvC3.
lol did you just come from trolling WNF stream to straight here?
talk about obsessive slander
nice job reppin hit box on WNF!
Seriously, the WNF stream chat got salty as fuck when Husser_Brian won. All I want to know is if there’s video proof of what people were claiming (that MvC3 allows you to block when you hold L & R, unlike S/SF4). If so, it does bring up a legit question on this thing for MvC3 tourneys, but at the same time, what would prevent a claw-grip pad player from doing this same thing if so?
But regardless, nice job on the win.
Actually, Combofiend won the tournament, and pretty handily at that. No disrespect to Husser_Brian, just wouldn’t want people to spread rumors about him cruising to a win using some kind of exploit. I actually would like to know if it’s true that MvC3 allows both inputs simultaneously. Someone said James Chen “confirmed” it, but I’d take it with a grain of salt until someone presents evidence of it.
I don’t think floating d-pads and even the DualShock d-pad allows you to register left/right or up/down at the same time. The dualshock d-pad looks like it can, but it’s still only one piece that moves as a whole, and not four separate buttons.
James Chen didn’t say anything simultaneous directions.
Goes to show you that all of these cheatbox people are morons.
Any video of Husser_Brian’s fight(s)?
This is wicked awesome shit and I think I want one when I’m not poor anymore.
How well would this work with Happ/iL buttons (same layout)? I like the pressure on them.
Xbox exclusive.
Please refer to my posts (2) including science.
It all depends on the PCB of the controller you’re using, and the console as well.
As I understand it, if you build a hitbox out of a TE mod, you’re more or less leaving it up to the game software to interpret what happens when opposing cardinal directions are pressed. In Super SF4 on the 360, opposing cardinal directions are interpreted as forward (again, not left or right) or up.
If you’re using a hitbox built by the Husser brothers from a custom PCB (The Akishop PS360?) Opposing cardinals are going to be default interpreted by the controller PCB itself, and it will be up and right.
My experience with my TE Mod hitbox on MvC3 (360) leads me to believe that MvC3 interprets opposing cardinals as forcing neutral direction, but my experience is not extensive, I haven’t really dug into the game.
Also, if used on a Naomi emulator, as I’ve heard (I have yet to confirm this), GG Accent Core will actually create a walk-forward/block option select (meaning you could hold both directions and block crossups)
I got a question for you guys with hitboxes, should i get one of these? I’m planning making it on my own since i live in europe (fightsticks are insanely expensive and hard to get). I never used a fightstick before, i have only used the xbox controller. So should i make a hitbox or a fightstick?
BTW If i do plan to make a hitbox i got to know if there are problems if i solder the directional buttons to the xbox controller pcb.
I usually base my criteria on whether or not switching from stick to a fight board ( remember, “Hit Box” refers to a specific product from the Husser brothers with a specific layout, also by the Husser brothers, my controller is not a Hit Box, nor does it use a true Hit Box layout, but a derivative ) on these two questions:
- Do you type faster than 75 words per minute?
- Do you have actual execution problems you can genuinely blame on the very concept of using a stick?
2a) No, I mean it, this one takes some serious, hard introspection. It’s easy for a person to blame a stick when they lose off hand. You need to think about this one HARD, else a purchase like this will be a waste of your money and your modder’s (possibly your) time.
If you answer yes to both questions 1 and 2, it might be worth it to try out a fight board.
On the subject of whether fight boards are cheating:
Tonight, I will dedicate myself to fighting game science, and come up with an answer I hope people will be happy with.
Here is my scientific method thus far, if anyone has any complaints, please feel free to voice them.
[list][]Attempt to devise a method by which a conclusion can be reached regarding universal pros/cons of fight boards over arcade-style sticks and traditional home console gamepads. This will be the toughest part of the entire process, as the vast majority of these will be entirely subjective, and not based in anything that can be proven by real science.
[]Devise a method by which to test the way a game, console, and controller PCB reacts to having opposing cardinal directions pressed at the same time–easily the biggest advantage of a fightboard–on a case-by-case basis.
[]Test these methods with current materials (games, consoles, and controllers) available, and record results.
[]Based on results, derive criteria for whether tournaments should issue bans to fight board controllers based on games and consoles tested. As of right now, I will be using David Sirlin’s criteria threshold of “Enforceable, Discrete, and Warranted” as defined in his book “Playing to Win”.
[]Compare results of experiments to banning criteria, if results meet ban criteria, record.
[]Publish testing method such that games, consoles, and controllers that are unavailable at the moment (I do not own them) may be tested optimally.
[*]Devise “optimal solution” for game software interpretation of simultaneous opposing cardinal directions such that game developers might be able to better prepare their game for fight board style controllers.[/list]
For anyone who believes I am throwing the term “science” around lightly, please be aware I am a published chemist and currently studying to be an electrical engineer. As such I am more willing to defend the integrity of science and experimentation itself rather than my preference to use fight board style controllers. I would prefer for fight board style controllers to be able to fall well under good ban criteria and never have to face a ban in a tournament setting. However, science is used to become correct, not to prove that you are already correct.
Also be aware that in any case situation I find that fight board style controllers meet sufficient criteria to warrant a ban, I, personally will push for tournaments to ban fight board style controllers, and, if they are not banned, will not use them. I don’t like using stick anymore, but hell, if it’s ban-worthy, even if it’s not actually banned, I’d feel bad using it.
I’ll probably be making a new thread here very soon. I want this shit settled, there’s a tournament on saturday I want to go to, and I don’t want whatever wins I receive to be tainted by label that I was cheating, by real criteria, not by motherfuckers being salty.
I think it’s already been stated that both “up and down” or “left and right” don’t work together in ssf4 or MVC3 but the simple solution would be to somehow program the hitbox itself to not do both inputs at once, if that is possible.
But really leave it to some idiot looking to gain some kind of unfair advantage to try to get away with that. The only reason I want a hitbox is because it seems like a comfortable way to input commands like the legions of people who input perfectly on a stick or a pad. I honestly wouldn’t be satisfied with victory if I had to cheat, so when i get mine I’m not even going to try to block both directions.
While I am fairly uneducated on the way controllers send/consoles interpret signals from a controller (so please correct me if I’m mistaken somewhere), in the case that opposing left/right inputs do in fact result in a “crossup-proof” defense in MVC3 or other games, this seems to be clearly a software problem and not a problem with the hitbox or any other controller capable of giving this input. If this can be done, banning hitbox-style controllers will not solve the problem. It should be simple to rewire a TE or any other controller to have a “left & right” input button, especially since most are produced with more buttons than any game requires. If hitboxes were banned for this reason, a method would have to be devised to check all other controllers for this sort of modification, which is basically ridiculous. This is the sort of thing that requires a game patch, not a ban.
@DmanXIIX
It’s quite clear to me that the situation is not satisfactorily settled. Hit Box products for whatever reason are not able to send simultaneous opposing cardinal directions (SOCD’s), but I’ve noticed that my fight board, an Xbox 360 TE mod can do this, so true Hit Boxes won’t face this problem, but other kinds of fight boards will.
Optimally, you want the game software to be able to receive SOCD’s because otherwise, at tournaments, you would have to have someone willing and able to check every single fight board controller whether or not it’s a “cheating” fight board or not. This is not reasonable at all and I would never ask any tournament organizer to do this. So I’m going to try and compile a list of game/console combinations for which fight board controllers can be deemed truly unfair and bannable in a worst case scenario.
@Reumra
Certainly a case can be made for the fact that it may be a problem with the game software, and not the controller and hardware driver when the game is made to interpret SOCD’s. In that case, I might encourage this experiment to serve to certain players and tournament organizers as “broken games” rather than simply “games where fight boards should be banned”.
I’m really glad you’re doing what you’re doing Amp. The last thing I’d want is for Hitboxes to be banned. Especially before I even had time to make or buy one. Speaking of which, I just recently finished my layout and artwork most likely. ( Unless there’s some really good MK images that are going to be released soon. )
http://img852.imageshack.us/img852/1092/shoryukenpostcopy.th.jpg
The text is just there to prevent hijacking.
The far left button is Run in UMK3, and Tag in/out for MK9. ( Pinky run FTW! )
@Amp
Big props to putting work to solve these questions once and for all. It gets pretty silly to have to explain everything about the Hit Box to everyone I show and tell them why things won’t work and why it’s not cheating. It would be awesome if we had a website to link someone to when they have a question since for some reason people aren’t too keen on reading the first post of this thread. I’d love to see how your results turn out, I’m confident the Hit Box will pass all tests.
@SE4NNNN
Interesting idea, I wonder if people would play MK on a Hit Box.
IF (big if) opposing cardinal directions are, in fact, abuseable, what is stopping anyone from modifying a conventional stick to hit opposing cardinal directions when a certain “hidden” combination of buttons is held?
I suspect the Hit Box will be just fine, but good to study the problem regardless.