Hit Box - We so S Tier1!

Tech Talk
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Alright, my TE mod is done, and it’s confirmed to work.

A few things I think should be noted.

  1. Doing Guy’s drop elbow is now a DREAM. (Half the reason I realized a fightboard layout would be good for me)

  2. I don’t play Gief, but just to see if I could do it, I pulled him out in the lab, and realized I couldn’t do his 360 as easy as expected. The natural movement of my fingers as I use it now creates an output of :l::db::df::uf: :p:, which ends up with just neutral-jump punch. I got to a point where I -have- a way to get 360’s to come out, but it definitely takes getting used to, although I don’t know if I’ll put the time in, since, again, I don’t play Gief.

  3. I can really break SF4’s animation code now. Hold back, then just start tapping forward rapidly. I still move forward at a slower pace, but most of my frames are blocking, and it kinda just looks like my character is skidding or sliding across the floor. Guy vaguely looks like he’s trying to masturbate while all this is happening.

  4. I have been using my left thumb for the jump button, despite it being injured, it really depends I guess on which thumb you prefer to make spaces with when you type, since I also noticed I use it in that fashion too.

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Here are parts 3 and 4 of unedited Hit Box play in Marvel 2.
Win streak broken; a few pretty hairy matches.

[media=youtube]W_cQe2vk2A8[/media]

[media=youtube]IaHSdNBPh5Y[/media]

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http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2213/dsc03779y.jpg

Tournament Edition Fight Board.

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wow, that actually looks pretty awesome! kinda tempted to get one, but i like my TE the way it is atm :slight_smile:

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Wow, nice work Amp. It wouldn’t surprise me if people start contacting you to make some of those for others. I also like the name, “Fight Board”

Husser_Brian, not only are you providing a great service to those wanting to try something new or just those who can’t stomach a joy stick - but it’s really getting people to take a good hard look at adjusting the traditional stick + 6 buttons approach arcade sticks have conformed to. I myself am experimenting with button and lay out positions inspired by your “Hit Box.”

It’s like a movement. A new era in design. Okay not really, but kind of … maybe.

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Preview of my own take on this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/kiki_daiso/th_Hitboxpre.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/kiki_daiso/th_Hitboxpre1.jpg

Will be using Crown 28mm & Wico 12mm buttons, as well as a PS360 board.
Artwork is done.

Only have to figure out where to put the Neutrik, and then paint it.

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WARNING! SCIENCE AHEAD!

I am thoroughly convinced that the guys behind Super SF4 actually anticipated something like fight boards, or at least some sort of apparatus where you can actually press opposing directions at the same time.

When you press opposing directions in Super SF4, it will actually favor one direction over the other depending on which side you’re on. I’ve heard posts in this thread claiming that the game simply overrides the old input and uses the new, this is not what I experienced.
[list]
[]Super SF4 will always favor forward (not left or right) when opposing directions are pressed.
[]Super SF4 will always favor up when opposing directions are pressed.
[/list]

Now, to me, the fact that this can change depending on which side you’re on makes me think that there is no real hardware reason for this to happen, I’m convinced there has to be software conditions in the game code itself for this.

Okay, since I don’t quite have extensive hardware to test this theory, and only have tried it on one game on one console, we’ll pretend for a moment that this situation will only work under these conditions:

[list]
[]Your fight board is made by modding a stock (No other modifications) MadCatz TE for the Xbox 360
[]You took all parts of the Sanwa JLF out of your MadCatz TE to accomplish the mod (I’ve heard of some people leaving the circuit board with microswitches in to help them accomplish the task solderless)
[]Your “direction” switch on your modded TE is set to “D-Pad”.
[]You own a second edition (Pre-“S”, post HDMI-inclusion) Xbox 360 that has been updated to the most recent (Kinect) firmware.
[]So far the only game this has been tested on is Super Street Fighter 4, I will be able to test BlazBlue CS, Marvel 2, and HD:Remix later.
[]Please, if you can meet parameters outside of these listed and are willing to contribute to SCIENCE, test the situation, and post results.[/list]

Update: I’ve run tests with my fight board on my PC running 64-bit Win7, and in the actual driver software (meaning this will happen regardless of what game you use if it’s on the PC), when opposing directions are pressed, the driver software forces the directional state to neutral.

I would imagine that if you could use a program such as joy2key, you could force the Win7 OS to recognize opposing directions as keyboard keys, and then manually program those keyboard keys into the game you want to run for testing purposes. I would do this myself but I think I’ve had enough testing and writing for one day, I need to go practice my Guy Fight Board combos.

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@AMP

i never lought so loud out bevore… SSF4 WAS PROGRAMMED THIS WAY becouse they take the code out of the TRUNK
and the CODE THERE did this becouse it was codet for playing on a KEYBOARD as well… PC Version…

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Since I’ve been on TZ much more often than SRK, I have posted my thought about playing Tekken w/ a hitbox there.

(shoutout to Dustin. Great work here!)

Tekken Zaibatsu Forums - arcade stick or regular controler ?

and yeah, ignore some stupid comments. I should really ban that kid.

Also, using the default converter, when pressing u+d and f+b on tekken, I get no movement. Doing move w/ two opposing direction pressed will yield no-direction moves.

As far as the button goes, I was surprised how small those buttons are, but I got used to it after a few minutes. I’d say that the directional buttons are good for the size, but the buttons on the right might be better w/ 30mm… well, at least that’s what I think I’d like, that is.

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@lowhighkang
Thanks! This is most definitely a movement. We’re getting Arlo Guthrie to write a song about it. :stuck_out_tongue:

@Amp
It’s pretty difficult to map out what x game on y controller does to produce z input when the poles are pressed / streams crossed. Results vary per game and PCB.
In the Akishop PS360 Tri Mod Joystick PCB, Left < Right and Down < UP (the greater one has priority over the input) for most all games I’ve tested, whereas other PCBs I use give a neutral input when opposite sides are inputted.
My general rule is don’t cross the streams, so I haven’t logged any results.
EDIT: CAN vary. Our PS2 Hit Boxes neutralize with all games I’ve tested so far, and the Akiship has been consistent with 4 < 6, 2 < 8.

@NoodleHead
Thanks for the feedback. It’s good to hear Hit Box is being tested with Tekken. Admittedly I don’t play Tekken games, so it’s great to hear that you see some potential for it. I know you’ll get the right-thumb jump down in no time. I’m actually really interested to hear more of a Tekken player’s perspective. Thanks again!

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I had high hopes for this so I drilled out a piece of MDF and built a quick one with a USB I-Pac.

Executing moves by themselves is extremely easy, but I have my doubts in real gameplay.

Moving jump from a stick to a button feels like less control over your character, which is similar to a platform shooter like Contra or Metal Slug. This control scheme is better in shooters because you have more control over aiming vs moving your character. (Ie, stick control > jump button). This is also why twin stick shooters have much better control than using buttons.

Real gameplay with the hitbox feels unnatural and forced. Also Super jump in VS games is terrible. Down+Back -> Up+forward is extremely awkward.

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Well, I believe that all these uneasy feelings will be gone once you are used to the hardware. I’d give it an analogy on how they compared to one the others:

  • Pad = automatic transmission
  • Stick = stick shift
  • hit box = … kinda like stick shift, but you press the gear shift in button form.

I personally see it as something that gives us more control than pad or stick, though the idea of input is quite different and even more fragmented than the advanced stick style. The fact that one single knob is split into 4 different buttons actually makes inputting direction more accurate. I tested it on Yoshi’s back turn Flea stance jump, where a slight off u/f_u/b would result him getting off the sword. I have much more accuracy w/ the hit box than I had w/ even the stick (LS-40), and much more than pad.

Still had a bit of hard time playing how I’d like to play tonight, but I am pretty sure that I will eventually get used to the control. :slight_smile:

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Like those European cars where the gear switch is a trigger right on the steering wheel.

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Buyer Feedback-

I’ve been a long time scrub…always picking the easy characters. I even bought up a Mas Stick, always playing the games on and off, but never able to execute; I can barely fierce xx super…And that’s been goin on for years, since I started in 2004.

I have never even considered playing marvel what with my execution. People always say “oh why don’t you practice?!”. I’ve BEEN trying for all these years until I finally just quit around Vanilla SF4. Just five minutes ago I managed to do clk, clk, stand rh, sj, ahvb, ahvb, ahvb with cable. I’ve been waiting all these years to be able to do that, and I owe it all to hitbox.

Look out SRK, there’s a new challenger in Marvel.

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But crossing the streams is so fun. :badboy:

Of course, when you cross streams there’s generally a process that you have to think of (for those who might not be familiar):
[list][]Does the controller/PCB send both signals separately?
[]Does the console/PC receive both signals, interpret them as separate signals, then send them on to the game software to interpret?
[*]How does the game software react when it receives crossed streams?[/list]

Optimally it’s the game software you want as the actual determinant, or else you have a situation where it literally favors left or right, independent of your placement on the screen. We can confirm that at least with my setup (my fightboard + my xbox) that it’s the game software that interprets crossed streams. My PC stops the signal at step 2 and forces direction back to neutral when IT receives crossed streams, meaning it never reaches the game software, but I bet I can fix that.

I discussed implications of the fightboard with some friends of mine on a podcast I hosted last night, and according to Kayin, if the Naomi/Arcade/(emulated) version GG Accent Core receives crossed streams, it completely breaks the game in that you actually create an option select where you either walk forward or block. I have to test this.

EDIT: You know, I would imagine that for Gief, Hawk, or Hakan players, crossing streams resetting back to neutral would actually be the best situation, since then you can just slam+roll your fingers across all three (l, d, r) directions and it will actually be interpreted as a full half-circle instead of :b::db::df::uf: like it was for me, then just hit up and you have enough inputs to execute a 360.

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That’s just too awesome. I was beaming when I read that. I’m really glad to hear it!

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Amp, maybe this is something you can help me with, I have an extra SE stick lying around and was thinking about trying to mod it to a Hitbox since I have most of the chips already on hand. One of my questions when looking at it is, the connector from the board to the joystick has 5 wires, i believe them to be 4 directions and one grounding wire, now do you know a way that i could possibly mod it to work with buttons? Would i have to either split the ground or add some extra wires to attach to the circuit board? I don’t have a lot of experience soldering but i’m pretty sure i know enough to get it to work if i just had a bit of info to go on.

edit
Also one of the main reasons why i want to do this with my old SE is because the main circuit board in it does not seem to register any stick inputs. The Buttons/guides section of the board works just not the part for the stick. So do you know a board i could use to easily swap out with? its for an Xbox360 stick if that helps.

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Daisy chain the grounds.

Here are the directions if you need them.

Also about your input problem, if it’s the stock SE stick, that’s common. The stick is trash.

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I’d be curious about how well Juri plays with this thing. I generally use my right thumb for holding a fireball while pressing other buttons. Seems to me that would force me to rely on the left thumb exclusively.

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Any chance of dual-modding a stick for both 360 and Gamecube (for Wii)? If so I’d be all over buying one of these.