[media=youtube]E1qngjVB_ks[/media]
Extra thanks to JohnGrimm
Wow!!! I wonder how much practice will it take to get that good and consistent on a hitbox? How many hours of practice?
x2 
As much as you can put in. The more the better.
If there a PDF or something so i can get cracking on building one these bad boys. It seems simple enough but i cant fathom how to.
This is some thoughts to JohnGrimm and Husser_Brian. Please reply when you have the chance. No haterade from me, just thoughts.
A little bit about my playing style before my thoughts on Hitbox: My main controller to use now is the HRAP 3SA on PS3, because all of the competitive arcade games here are in the japanese style sticks. I used to be more comfortable on the american baseball-bat style sticks, but that was wayyy long ago. Almost no arcade here has those sticks anymore, and even though it took me a long time to get used to the ball-type stick, I eventually did, but itâs not my best controller.
My best controller, hands down, is still keyboard.
I started using keyboard for SF2 and KOF on emulator since 1994, using the standard WASD for joystick motions. I was also playing the PC version of ST by Gametek with keyboard. I actually learned to type properly and quickly, by playing SF and KOF on keyboard. Keyboard is very precise, and I can pull off most of the crazy SNK motions. The only things that I have trouble with is 720, and sometimes Tigerknees.
So when I first heard of HitBox on SRK, I was interested in it, and the layout of the buttons, it makes sense. I thought a long time about this before writing to you guys.
I support what you are doing, and I like HitBox.
However, I think HitBox is seriously too good, because itâs too ergonomic and easier, and MUCH faster. Hear me out a bit, Iâm not flaming.
With any other joystick, much more muscle movement is needed to do motions, because the angle and direction is mostly from your wrist.
With keyboard/Hitbox, itâs just a simple tap with a finger, itâs almost effortless.
What was challenging about the WASD format, is that it wasnât ergonomic, so normally difficult stuff like 720s are still difficult to do. With HitBox, movements that were intentionally supposed to be difficult, arenât nearly as difficult anymore. For the newest video you guys posted, standing 720s all day, with HitBox, you could litterally do that all day. With a joystick, that would be a lot harder, and youâd mess up earlier.
Back in the day when SF2 was first released, stuff like SPD was difficult to do because the motion was hard to do. Nowadays, there is imput leniancy (which I strongly dislike), and I think that HitBox takes advantage of the leniancy much better/easier than the joystick can.
A good example is the shortcut motion for SRK on joystick vs WASD/HitBox. It is DwnFwd, DwnFwd +P
With joystick, you use your wrist motion to tap downforward over and over.
For HitBox/WASD, all you do is hold your left middle finger on Down, then tap Forward over and over with your left index finger.
It is more time consuming to use joystick for that motion, uses more muscle, and the imput may be more imprecise (if you are using a round gate, not a square gate)
Tapping on HitBox buttons is just as fast, if not even faster than mouse-clicks.
I think HitBoxes should be tourney legal and everything, I just think that it makes this a LOT faster, more consistent/precise (all good things) and easier to imput purposely difficult motions (which I believe is a bad thing). I think it takes away from a good amount of the execution barrier, which is one of the challenges of fighting games - to be able to execute difficult motions during stressful situations, consistently.
I agree with most of what you have to say, and I do agree that the speed and ease of which the Hit Box allows you to perform motions can be ridiculous in some situations, but itâs not like it is completely infallible.With the Hit Box you still have to train to build up muscle memory to be able to perform the motions consistently like you would with any other form of input, it wonât make you a better player simply by using it. And while some things like the Shoryuken shortcut are easier, the 720 I will admit is not easier than a stick. The Hit Box allows the 720 to be possible, but itâs still a very hard motion to do.
The Hit Box was not designed to abuse SSFIV shortcuts, quite the contrary. The Hit Box was designed to play MvC2, which does not have the same shortcuts. The overall design was to simply be ergonomic to the human hand while allowing you to have exact control over every input you do, whether it be motion or attack. The Huffer brothers didnât even know about SSFIV shortcuts until just recently when they started playing the game. Itâs possible to play any game you want to on the Hit Box, but I do agree with you that it does take advantage of the SSFIV shortcuts even though it was not intentional. If you want to play ST or something else it would be advised to not build up muscle memory for shortcuts since they will ruin your inputs in other games.
The extra speed you get and the lessened muscle use is the driving force behind the Hit Box and the sole reason it exists. I understand your issues with it, but it is no more advantageous than using anything else. Even though the Hit Box can use shortcuts easier than a stick could, it does not automatically do the motion for you, and in the heat of battle you still have to do the shortcut to get a move to come out. Even still, I feel that personally fighting games are more about the mental game between players more than it is about the execution. Execution is necessary, but at higher levels of play it becomes secondary to mind games, mix up, and reading your opponent. A device that makes execution easier does not make one a better player, it simply makes a player with better execution. It still comes down to the player to be able to outplay his opponent.
Im a big clumsy dummy who cant build a box. Where/when will these be available for sale?
i see what your saying but im holding ourselves back what are we to achieve, we are all doctors within fighting games we got to work as soon as we see fight. Why not equip ourselves with the best tools possible? People dont look up to you more because you use stick or pad.
I made this this morning for everyone. Took a top down pic from here and overlayed a drilling template
I spent a year learning the dvorak keyboard layout as it was proved to be more ergonomic than qwerty layout.
A big issue is that whenever you go to someone elseâs computer, you have to use qwerty, which is a huge turn off. Or if you use some other software other than windows/mac, only qwerty layout is available (Or you have some special hardware like a blackberry)
Itâs like, 99% of computer / gadget out there use qwerty layout. So the time you spent learning dvorak cannot be applied to a lot of situation.
I am not trying to bash on hitbox. I do believe once you sink enough time into it, it will be more efficient than using a stick.
But the problem is that this trend will drive people away from using standard equipments.
10 years ago B4/B5 or first EVO they were still using arcade cab and everyone played on stick.
Now if we have arcade cabinet a lot of people wonât even play because they either can only play on pad, or only willing to play on their custom stick since they are so âusedâ to it.
Or if a game is run on ps2/wii/jamma and your stick doesnât work on that and you will not be able to compete.
Although I believe efficiency is a good thing, but having everyone using a different equipment also has its down side.
For example, those people who spent a lot of time training with pad / custom stick wonât even play at the arcade anymore⌠or if you are very good at the game but you cannot play on standard stick you cannot compete at SBO as another example, and so onâŚ
Japanese on the other hand, almost 90% of them play on the the same equipment. But their arcade scene is still alive (although slowly they are dying as well)
And like people mentioned, some of these motions are designed to play on a stick and they are difficiult to do for a reason. But using keyboard/hitbox that barrier is removed (like you can do dash ultra easily), somehow I feel that is not quite right
Just a thought
I would still like to see a unbuffered 720, IE done from a neutral stand without inputting during another move. Has anybody had any success doing that?
I know on stick that is extremely hard.
Dustin is working on a way to possibly do it. The last time I talked to him I was informing him about the frame data for SSFIV and he started trying to calculate mathematically the best way to attempt it on Hit Box. A true standing 720 will be quite difficult, but I donât feel that it is impossible, itâll just take a lot of time to figure out.
Itâll be impossible without buffering it somehow. Even if you mess with the animation from a crouch into the 720, itâll still be buffering from the crouch.
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I think where both of us differ in value is how much execution is worth; I value execution a HUGE amount; itâs probably because Iâm very very oldschool and I feel that the execution barrier is a necessary challenge we need to face.
An example for me can probably be Solâs Dust loop. Even on keyboard, I canât do any repetitions of Solâs Dust loop, itâs just too hard for me. I think that execution barrier is actually a good thing, because if the Dust Loop was easy to do, then everyone could do it.
Regarding MvC2, I donât play that game, but I understand how the HitBox would be very good for it, because of the quick executions and precise executions needed.
With imput shortcuts for SF4, itâs moreso Capcoms objective to broaden the player field and revitalize the scene with more players, which they sucessfully did.
Nevertheless, again, I like HitBox, and I support what you guys do. I think it would be very interesting to see top USA and overseas players using HitBox and giving their thoughts on it.
I agree with what you said.
As we deviate from standard universal controls, the target audience/amount of players increases (which is a good thing) but it can take away from the innate natural execution difficulty of the game/sport.
An example I just thought of:
F1 Racing. Imagine if the steering wheel was replaced by a Left and Right button, with same foot pedals. To do a slow turn, you press Left once. To do a heavy left, press Left twice. This is just a theoretical example, because it just depends on the curve of the turn, but my point is that the Steering Wheel component of the car, may not necessarily be the best tool for turning the vehicle; it probably simply exists out of tradition. Think about it, it takes 2 complete arms to move and spin the wheel, whereas if you use buttons, it could be done with simple presses.
On an even more extreme note with F1 racing - I went to the Honda Museum in Japan a few years ago, and you could sit in a F1 cockpit, and it had a steering wheel you could turn. The steering wheel stiffness simulated the amount of muscle you needed to turn the steering wheel with the full amount of downforce on the car. It was EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to turn the steering wheel. I needed to crank the thing with both arms VERY VERY HARD to get the steering wheel to move even 1 inch.
If the steering wheel was replaced with buttons, think about how much faster and easier it would be to control and race the F1 car.
i understand what you are saying, in its entirety. The thing is with the improvement of technology and the way the world is now, the fact is we live in a world of instant gratification. People arent eager to put in the time it takes to learn something like they did back in the day. Like what capcom did with super and making not only the visuals gorgeous but they dumbed down the controls somthing serious. this resulted in a bunch of new players and revitalized the scene. I believe 2 3 punch results in a dp or something like that. I honestly have no doubt that the hitbox would increase my execution because i still have problems doing dashs corrrectly sometimes and other things, even after all these years. a simple double tap would always get me a dash. I mean just imagine if people still had to go to the arcade to play rather than sitting on their couch. i just think with the advancement of tech and the need to get more and more people into fighting games. You will see controls get much easier from now on. I think mvc3 has it where you can actually do specials by pressing one button now or something. I think the hitbox is just doing a great job of taking advantage of a systems game mechanics. i believe triangle jumps are much easier to pull off with the hit box. thats just my 2 cents. i am going to give it a try i just hope it doesnt make me hate going back to stick. Also about not being able to play the game with the hitbox on arcade, because arcades are dying in the U.S. and really no major is played on arcade(maybe SBO). It shouldnt really be that much of a problem unless people start hating because they say it somehow gives a bigger advantage. It is really no different than a pad or a stick. the only exception would be where i think i read in some posts that people were talking about putting two of the same directions on the stick like 2 ups or 2 downs. or even the select button so they could blink. People arguing against that would have a legitimate argument but just against the hit box. I think it will be fine
I have yet to hear about anyone creating a button mod to âblinkâ their inputs.
More than simply hooking up the Back/Select button to your input, you would need to have a little electronic control to REPEAT the input for you.
I.e.
If you wire [Back] + :lp: together, pressing :lp: will only output:
:lp:
âBlinkingâ still requires you to press one button after the other, and the desired effect (plinking on :lp:/:lk:) could just as easily be achieved by making an 8-button stick, then having :lp: and :lk: for both left-most columns.
anybody wired a PS360 PCB for a Hit Box yet?
I will be soon
I doubt ill use it but well see