Alright so after watching some of that SFxT 25th anniversary stuff…I like where the game is going over SFIV pretty free.
Now the thing is I know for sure that making the red health recovering slower enough isn’t going to help ENOUGH with the time out issue. Time outs happen in this game still more often than they do in CVS2 which is pretty sad. If I’m going to play this game I’ma put as much old game damage into it as I can.
Soooo…with that said…which are the teams that currently or after the patch will do the most damage back and forth with the least amount of meter? I’ve heard stuff like Lars/Mishima but wanna know what else is out there.
That’s going to be big because whichever team has strong footsies and can carry damage fast back and forth will eventually end up being the strongest shit in this game. Controlling the neutral for a long time will be strong but when people bring out the teams that do damage consistently it’s going to get rough for those more spacing/low damage centric teams.
I’m going to assume adding power gems to both characters will help a lot also. Which may be counteracted a bit by people putting up defense gems…but hopefully gems will become regular for all tournaments soon. All the other games play with all of their options so no reason SFxT shouldn’t also.
Other than the Mishimas and Lars, you will have Nina,Steve,Hwoarang,Akuma,Law,Bear that come to mind with easy damage. Plus don’t forget the nerf to rolls, and characters like Yoshimitsu who can setup good tag cancels for reset options. And the nerf to health regen is pretty big, the current version could negate a good portion of your damage if your opponent tags,and 4 seconds later their health is back to half or more.
With rolls being punishable I think you can just read them and meaty the recovery for big damage. I’ll put up a list later from teams I use. There’s a lot of decent 40-50% stuff off 1 meter and a lot of 2 meter stuff can push up close to 60%. But even with the 2 meter stuff you can squeeze back like half a bar or so of meter with or without gems so you really spend 1ish.
So what gems would you say are best for racking up the damage? I would assume power gems would help but would meter ones be important as well? What’s a good combo?
Boost chaining, if you will, count toward the ones that proc damage increase off X amount of hits. Tag switching or “Your partner launches” type of stuff is also good. I personally things with the condition of “your partner launches” for hit confirming into launchers so that my incoming characters have something decent. So for example something like my current team Sagat and Law. If I see a bad whiff, I’ll punish with s.HK~HP+HK (can’t mash boost HK~HK~HK), Law comes in, c.HP~somersault juggle, c.HP~dragon stance into knuckle, then dragon kicks for pretty hefty damage. If I wanted to carry them further into the wall I could do c.HP~spin kicks with Law and switch Sagat back in. There are some gems that will activate off tag switching. I haven’t used them a whole lot myself. There’s a lot of experimentation still needed.
IMO the best ones are the ones you can absolutely activate whenever you want. The “your partner launchers” gems are a good example of that. This also works well with the meter version where you just bring in your character and tag switch a bit more and build back the meters used up in the process very effectively. Sethlolol runs a lot of those gems on Law for meter building and you saw it fumble in the match against Infiltration since he wasn’t able to hit him much. But on the other matches where he did get to touch people he was able to confirm into some good tag switches.
Raw tags are 100 damage initially. Tatsu did a beautiful reactionary raw tag on Infiltration using Rolento’s command roll, there’s more things vulnerable like that here that’s a WIP: Low Crush Research
Some of the bigger combos I’ve seen involve a locking down type of attack while switching someone in to charge up EX or Super. Ryan Hunter did some nifty stuff on this guy in a replay I saw. He catches the victim with Steve’s command grab gatling punch thing toward the corner, switches Julia in and does 2-3 neutral jump HK, then juggles with Julia and finishes the BNB for like 500 damage. With that he basically rebuilt the meter spent switching Julia in and may have made even more so he could have switched Steve back in also after maybe a DP ender with Julia from the initial switch.
There’s just way too many fun and awesome things in SFxT being plagued by boost chaining and silly looking timeouts being shown on stream.
Here’s Big Boss/Yung_Ice with some DLC meter gem in action with Law/Lei combo tag switch, charge up Super and then a Level 3 Tag super. It’s like a 70-75% damage combo with about 3 meters. The gem procs almost a full meter I believe, but I didn’t look into what specific condition was required. He spends 6 meters here. Tag switch (1), charge up super (2), and cross art (3)
A reason why there’s time outs is because people do extended llllmhh combos instead of hit confirming with few hits as possible and waste mater on extended combos too long to the point where 1 bar won’t even get you 50 extra damage. People need to hit confirm with less and not waste mater on scaled combos.
Anyway on the top of my head, jack-x and kaz is a pretty hard hitting team if you can ewgf. Jack’s does a huge amount of damage while zoning and kaz can break 500 meterless with ewgfs. Other heavy hitters are Heihachi, Xiaoyu, Nina, Akuma, and Hugo. Heihachi can do around 400ish if you optimize your combos, Xiaoyu and Nina can also do a ton of damage meterless if you have execution, Akuma has okayish damage midscreen but does huge amounts in the corner, and Hugo is Hugo.
You can’t tag out in CVS2. If you could, there would just as many time outs in that game, too. It’s a function of the game’s format.
There’s only so much you can do to eliminate TOs in a tag team game, unless we get stupid and random with damage for the sake of “hype”.
People who do crappy combos, run away like Infiltration, stock up on defense gems, or pick overly defensive character combinations will always run the risk of TO. That’s a matter of personal choice. Nothing Capcom can do will ever change that, unless they jack up the damage (which is already high) and ruin the game.
It’s sad considering the amount of potential ways that you could not end up having time outs in this game. Like you said it’s a lot because people are letting it happen and with people going towards higher damage teams and the changes to the system…it’s looking good towards having a less time out centric game.
I was basically agreeing with you but yeah. Everything is way more dependent in any fighting game on the players.
This is why i have said that in ver.2013, we could see a shift in gem usage to a more power gem based game, even though defense gems will still be viable enough. Especially with a few characters getting health nerfs it will be much easier to take them out.
from what i’m seeing the reason most time outs occur is because people keep running away. I think Stage size plays a factor. The only reason timeouts will occur less (if they even do) is because you just cant get away with anything making people get punished more often than they do now.
I dont see this solving the problem as people/teams continue to run away (i.e. jack x, sim, raven, akuma etc…) while at the same time they not only made chasing these people down even harder (i.e. Hugo, Gief, Vega, etc), but overall there were very few weak damage buffs and a lot of damage nerfs while providing more of an incentive for people to run away if they have the life lead.
Across the board damage buffs and very few slight minor frame changes is what i would have recommended but we’ll see how this pans out. I’m not exactly looking forward to this update tho
Yeah that’s why I’m looking at the gem system to help with the damage. Depending on which ones are the easiest to set up practically in a tournament.
Runaway tactics is nothing new. It’s just the combination of those tactics plus all of the issues within the game from both the game itself and the players that’s holding it back from people dying more often and having more complete matches.
Right now I’m just trying to get a quick outlook for the best way to set up a lot of damage and then there’s always time to figure out anti runaway tactics later (if there are any).
More or less. Damage is low because people just keep hitting jab jab jab into boost combos which nerf their output overall. People should be doing it with less to get better results. I get 300-400 damage pretty easy with Law/Kuma if I land a single attack, either f.LP for Kuma or cr.mp or cr.mk for law. I’ll look for damage other ways but I will get that guaranteed damage if I hit you with it. It’s how I still win matches online even when better players are dancing around me like crazy. They do more hits to me but my hits count for more.
Small clip of 40-50% combos that are pretty practical. The end ones re: Steve’s command grab is tricky but with short throw ranges you can bait it out since everyone’s lows will more or less be 5f also in 2013. And majority of these are gemless damage. With them activated the damage is easily banking over 55% of a single character’s health in one shot plus incoming oki and roll punishing in 2013. Dead characters with a bad roll inc 2013. I’ve seen some impressive stuff done on me in ranked and endless but I don’t know the characters well enough to replicate lol.
Note that I start off with 1 meter in most of these combos and build back up like 50% or more from hits and end up spending close to nothing without meter gems. For people that are afraid of wasting meter on lengthy scaled combos, it is a concern but sometimes there’s free meter off the right setups when you hit confirm.
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edit: I goofed the meter settings on two of the Bison/Heihachi clips but you get the idea.
I like some of these, but the Steve ones, tbh, aren’t practical AT ALL.
I personally find charging to super from elongated moves helps to maximize damage output. Finding those characters that can hold someone down PRACTICALLY will be your best bet.
Also, I’d rather just burn the meter and build it back than hardly use it at all.
Hehe, you can kinda sub it with Law instead of Steve. Only you’d squeeze in like maybe two j.HK with Julia if you have a speed gem active cuz she starts bunny hopping fast enough to do it.