I feel like in Tekken, in Seattle, it’s a hell of a lot easier to plateau than it is in Street Fighter. You need people, and a good number of them, to form a good scene. Without people, you lack exposure and you lack experience. There are way too many characters and not enough people playing them. Even without that dilemma I still wouldn’t play though =/.
And besides the people I love playing against most, don’t even play Tekken anymore.
QfT.
I’ll jerk with Tekken for probably to the point of some pre-cum, but honestly SFIV has my ass, BALLS DEEEEEEEEEEP. And I don’t think that’s going to change…
plus axe kicks not safe??? Get that shit outta here.
With that many characters, you’re going to need to have enough ppl in the scene to cover those characters…look at TTT for the one time it was @ EVO, I lost to the nastiest paul/wang counter scrubs I’ve ever seen in my life…and honestly after that my thirst for Kazuya’s dick just went limp. Which is really sad because Kazuya is probably my most favorite character in any fighting game…next to Anna Williams and Armor King they are right up there with M. BISON.
Frank… you should’ve just WGF with Kaz all day if they were spamming counters. It counted as an elbow and thus couldn’t be countered. At least back in tag… not sure if this still holds true. Lee’s knee works like this too. Counter-happy Asukas get KNEED IN THE FACE all day long… they don’t have good punishment for it on block, either. =P
Axe kicks are not punishable if you mean f+4… still + frames but fewer + I think and don’t force crouch. Kaz is still plenty beast. Just maybe not S class like T6.0. Still has 1,1,2 (no splat), b+1,2 splats and is 11 frames. WS+2 ALWAYS stuns on hit now… even at max range. CD+4,1 still sends them up on the wall for a combo off the low (more than almost anyone gets off a quick non-CH low). EWGF still like +5.
I definitely get the thing about lack of players, though. With 38 move sets (Christie and Eddy also have varying possible juggles on a couple launchers), there just aren’t enough people playing in Seattle to get enough to main every character, much less have several extremely competent users of each character.
… even in New York they only have enough good players to REALLY use a handful of the characters, at the moment. That’s why I’m trying to get as much experience as I can here, before I move back. At Green last night there were over 100 players in the arcade, cycling in and out on the 20 machines (couple out of order at the moment, actually).
I’ll be in Vermont from late August, but I’ll be online if someone wants to train and I have some time. =) As soon as it releases I’m gonna make a Lee vs. DVD showing punishes and strats with Lee against each character, also telling the frames each character is punishable by. If you learn your character and their punishes, watching that will give you a good idea of how to fight against other characters’ stuff and what to punish with. As for me, I take a notebook with punishes by frames, and punishable stuff by frames on block with me every time I go to the arcade (and which throws are what on break, and what position they leave you in)… gotta add string that are duckable or fuzzy guardable to it, then combos (it’s in part to learn Mokujin, and how to get better at fighting everyone). I try to get games in when I see high level players with rare characters so I can learn to play against them well, too (Yoshi and Miguel yesterday, yellow and red ranks). Anyway, if Seattle wants a jump start in Tekken despite the smaller scene size, I’d be more than happy to photocopy (you just pay for the copies) the entire notebook. This will greatly accelerate players’ competency in punishing and matchups I think. When a move is annoying you, look on the page and see what it’s at on block, if it’s a steppable/duckable string, or whatever else. Like a giant quick reference thing. Just buy a folder with 40 clear sheets, get copies from me, and slide them in–instant quick reference guide to get you started on and against all characters… at the start of each match flip to the page of the person you’re fighting. If a move is pissing you, try and work around it, check on it between rounds, and if you find something about it otherwise, add your own notes after the match (yesterday found the best anti Yoshi ff+4 might be backdash after block… BT options whiff and I took free juggles… added to notes).
So yea, my typing is longish–sorry. The scene does lack new faces. Though I will be moving out of state for 10 months (back next summer), I’ll be online and I think my notes will be GREAT for a head start for everyone (sorry I can’t send them in a file… my work blocks the sites I use and I have no printer at home, so everything is hand written). I’m hoping my notebook will get everyone up to speed and maybe attract some new players from other fight games in Seattle, because it’ll help them understand the game and the matchups much more quickly. If they start a new character they can look at a page, see throw options, and punishments by frames instantly without having to wade through TekkenZaibatsu’s incredibly cluttered forums (I couldn’t find shit there for many characters so I started putting stuff together myself).
Example: Steve’s duck 2 uppercut it pissing and you’re playing Marduk (And your name is Robert Plummer? … Maybe not…). You check the list and see Steve’s Duck 2 launcher is -14 on block and that Duk has b+4 at 14, so you start punishing it every time you block. Steve’s Peek-a-boo shoryuken launcher you look and find is -15, which means you’ll get a launch with almost all of the cast (generic hopkick_uppercut, EWGF for Mishimas, JU for Bryan, ff+3 for Julia, etc…). It’s a quick guide to punishing and such without having to test as much…
So by the time I get back, each paper will have a collection of:
-Punishers by frame (from standing and from crouch)
-Throws’ escape input and frames/situation on break
-Moves punishable on block by frames
-Duckable strings
-Some fuzzy guardable/steppable strings
-A collection of combos
-General game info (wakeup kick frames on hit and block, stepping slides and dives, etc.)
-Other notes
That should be plenty to get anyone started playing AS or AGAINST any character of the cast. For more info I’m sure the TZ forums will have more stuff and will hopefully be more organized by the time the game releases on console. Consider this help to keep people from plateauing quickly and to get people up to speed.
So, if you are willing to pay for 39 double-sided copies (38 character sets + 1 general system paper), and a 40-sheet folder, you’ll basically have an initial game guide that might well have more info than the official guide that’ll come out later. If you want it after I’ve left for school, you can get copies from whoever already has it.
Later, when I do the Lee DVD thing after console release (SHOWING anti-char strats and punishes, fuzzy guardable strings, etc.), I’ll see that the files are uploaded to Preppy’s site. The info in the vs. videos will prolly be pretty useful whoever you play. Warning: IT WILL BE LONG!
Curtis: Awesome, man. That’s probably one of the coolest things I’ve heard as far as breaking down and teaching T6 goes. I’ve really enjoyed what I played so far (BC has some T6 and T6:BR cabs, and great jap/honger players), and I’d love to see if this is the Tekken that can get me into the series for real. Until then, that’s waaayyy too much learning to do. Far too technical and not frantic enough as a series.
Btw: Is Zafina any good in BR now, or is she still pretty disappointing?
“I’ll jerk with Tekken for probably to the point of some pre-cum, but honestly SFIV has my ass, BALLS DEEEEEEEEEEP. And I don’t think that’s going to change…”
frank speaks the truth
“Example: Steve’s duck 2 uppercut it pissing and you’re playing Marduk (And your name is Robert Plummer?”
LOOOOL CURTIS
ngan: i want to play you. im pretty sure the last time i played you was at majors and i got fuckin RAPED. i havent improved, but then again who still plays tekken besides manny? lol t6 foo its on
im mad there are a few people that’re making me want to play this nasty ass game…taking away from prime sf4 time. and wtf dustin is not playing tekken? we’ll see…
Curtis:
You have your first customer for a notebook copy right here!
I main eddy, but i am looking for a serious second character that has potential to deal with most of the cast effectively. I hadn’t thought about lee, and i only used him sparingly in DR, but i will use lee as my second pick and take full advantage of your information.
edit: Ngan: Manny talked to Dustin today , and he said that he is going to play BR. We need strong heads like you guys to take the Northwest all the way.
Yea, I won’t be making any money off copies of notes… I just don’t want to pay for other peoples’ copies. I’ll prolly make a few initially for people who let me know before we meet and play, and those people can get it and pay me back just the cost of the copies that night. After I leave for Vermont anybody can get copies from someone who already has them. =P
There are a lot of people who fight the whole cast effectively… some matches a little harder some easier (for example… fighting someone with a lot of -13 low moves, Lee cannot get WS+2,3 for a mini juggle since it’s 14 frames, but Kaz or Eddie/Christie get juggles after the block it… some things are slightly more spammable against certain characters just in that a particular character might have no damaging punish on it. Another example is Lee can kinda spam WS+2,4 against Yoshi. Yoshi doesn’t really have a good punish until 15 frames and Lee is -14 after that move. Capos are really buff. The best capo I’ve ever seen rarely uses relax or handstand, so he wouldn’t face many difficulties against even those who can pick him up from those stances (because he’d never give them the chance).
Different characters can possibly be played best in different styles. If you want the king of punishment, go for Kaz or maybe Lars. Trickery is Ling, Lei, and capos. Poking could be Bob or Miguel. Etc. etc. Whiff punishment may well go to Kuma/Panda… d/f+2,1 with range of a cruise missile. =O
I would like a copy as well, if possible.
I am totally down for this shit 100%!
I plan to play Lili, Miguel and possibly Lars.
Hwoarang, Draganov, and Kaz. Will be dabbling in Jin this time around.
Right now I’m still maining Lee.
I also play…
Law
Hei
Roger
Kuma/Panda
Christie/Eddie
Bruce
with a bit of…
King
A.King
Drag
In 6 I also played Leo, but I haven’t played her in BR yet.
I’m especially excited to play Nina, I think. She’s got some crazy shit. =)
Slowly working towards Mokujin (Mokukumo? MuraMOKUmo?). So the whole list has been for me to learn to play as and fight against all the characters. Today I’ll be a big step closer to completing it. Got all my duckable string info together so I just have to get it onto the papers. The last thing to do then is add combos, and I saved those in Word format so I just have to translate from Japanese and stick them on my paper… thank god for speaking Japanese. =)
I would try to make scans to get them to you guys sooner, but I have no scanner here. You’ll have to wait until August. =x
I dont mind waiting. i will just try to stay current on vids of good players, and look for things to ask questions about.
Your comment about the best capo player not using relax stance only serves to confirm the theory i’ve had for a couple weeks that RLX mix ups are not a good choice at higher level play, esp in BR. The continual usage on people who may not be able to deal with it effectively could give me a false sense of security in my playing style/ability, only to get swept by someone at a major tourny who know just what to do
Im trying to catch all my bad DR tendencies Now with Eddy, as to not repeat them in BR when we get it.
ALSO: I saw a vid of an asuka player getting beat down by BOB. Asuka was in the corner, and got rage meeter. It was the mystic river/waterfall stage, and bob got his punch reversed by a counter, which threw him into the wall, caused wall stun, and she was able to bound combo against the wall! Off of a counter? Was this just random, or do throws that put enemies into walls ( eddys df 1+2 with eddy against the wall first ) have the potential to set up bound combos?
Some throws will splat on walls…
Lee’s ff+3+4, Mishima ff+1+2, Paul’s new JF throw, etc. Asuka’s counter consistent throws into the wall for combo… it also gets her killed by me when I chicken 3x straight or opt to knee instead. XD
Some just get extra damage from walls but no wall combo… like GS, Nina/Anna u/f+1+2, Capo d/f+1+2, etc.
Heavy D, if you want to, register at tekkenzaibatsu.com. Matchmaker forums. Not much tekken talk going on now (understandably), but this is where we set up sessions and the like.
A lot of 2D fighters hate the randomness that 3D’ers provide. Which is fine…there is something to be said of structure. I am a fan of controlled chaos. I see the beauty in both D’s lol.
That being said…goddam I suck at fighters lol.
But I love them nonetheless.
I don’t think you realize how much better you have gotten. In the casuals at last years NWM, you knew what you were doing. You will be beating a lot of faces and making people mad in BR, who think that they are better than you, but in reality aren’t.
There is NO love for tekken in the current zaibatsu thread, save very few. i would rather post here, were people who don’t particularly care/ like BR will be least likely to voice negativity, even if it is justified. there are some of us who still want to play tekken, and take to the next level.
that notebook sounds crazy. reminds me of when i first started playing tekken and i printed out a movelist. you can tell if moves are unsafe pretty from the way it looks most of the time, imma memorize ur notebook tho curtis, watch out haha. i hear both law and steve are top tier now? hella good, ill still play my nina//anna too of course. heads will roll when BR comes out, till than who wants some sagat?
I think I have an account at TZ, but just haven’t used it in like a year.
Nah man. They all love tekken but are in denial. ;p
But it’s extremely hard to keep USA love for a game when it’s out a goddam fucking year+ in Japan with NO USA release.
SF in America is huge. Deservedly so. It’s a fun game. Imagine if they refused to release SF arcade in the states.
…
oh wait
People haven’t talked Tekken in the zaibatsu thread since 2007.
I don’t know, contrary to how I act I don’t have it in for Tekken, but the scene has been severely lacking in good mentoring and a central gathering spot since Ric left. Nobody’s really taken up that slack so it’s like a lot of potential players don’t get better, frustration rises and the community suffers as a result.
Well… I’m not sure when I’ll be a permanent part of the Seattle gaming scene again due to school (10 months in Vermont for my MA and teacher training certification, then 2+ years somewhere else for a PhD). Anyway, I’ll always be around for holidays at least, from now on, as I’ll be back in the states at least.
Seattle has had a pretty weak Tekken scene. It was doing alright when Lanwerx had 5, but with Lanwerx dead, and only Fed Way Tilt having DR, it was way too far for a lot of people to go to play. We were actually getting some SF players interested when the machine was in Lanwerx. I remember Zach being interested in Steve, for example, lol.
Seattle needs more people to play it and delve into the system more instead of scrubbing out with random launches (I used to do that, too… hell, occasionally I still do, lol). I think coming out on 2 systems will help allow access to the game (no arcade release certainly didn’t help), and it’d be nice to bolster the number of players a bit. I’m hoping my notebook will help attract some newer players so that the game seems less random to them, and they can have a clue of how stuff is working right off the bat. The more that people know at the start, the quicker they’ll improve. Seattle’s top players are even relatively weak (sorry, not trying to dig at you guys… still prolly whup my ass) just because there was really nobody to push them. People like Ngan and Eddie prolly would’ve been a lot better players if they had better regular competition. If we can push the level of competition up, Seattle can start to run things. All of this is gonna need to start with people having an idea of what’s going on and intelligently playing the characters and delving into the game. My notebook should help at the start, later I’m sure there will be some good English resources online (after console release).
… Basically, Seattle’s gotta recruit players. I think Gameworks’ tourneys, especially if hyped on outside channels (on radio stations?) would bring more business to Gameworks and would draw new players in (they get a console release, hear about a tourney and big $, and think, hey, maybe I can win, right?)… and the answer is no, no they can’t win… not yet. But by seeing our best they can get a glimmer of what good play looks like and hopefully become motivated and drawn into the scene. Remember how many console scrubs came to that IVGF tourney for T4, despite that being the gross Tekken that everyone hated? 53 IIRC, paying like $50 entry. Imagine if we had 53 people suddenly jump into Seattle Tekken… even if they were all scrubs to start, having that many people playing would start to push their levels up quickly–that many people will turn hella competitive.
… anyway, that’s what I’m hoping happens. I wanna see Seattle Tekken rise from the ashes and become totally baller.
Eddie better be on this; Ric needs to drag his ass back from Tokyo and start making his wife play; I need to start making my wife play; and Paris should like, ninja-reappear outta wherever he is like POOF!
… and whatever happened to Robert?
Another thing is, if good players just smash scrubs and done, many newcomers might leave quickly. It’s important that we have some players of all levels. For mentoring new players, we need to start at the matches at their level. Watch as they play someone their level and give them both tips on how to punish the opponent’s unsafe stuff, for example.
Anyway, I do hope I can entertain some people when I get back. Still working at Backdash (and front dash) cancelling and wavedashing… up to 4-5 a second on both right now. =) I’ll try to make a basics of BR video once I’ve got it on console and have Zach upload that, too. Should help out the newbies and intermediate players (basics to advanced movement and stuff). I never got this deep into Tekken before. I loved the game but was too far from competition (lived in Marysville and started playing in arcades at 13, had no real transportation or way to get down to play good players other than the occasional tourney… competition was nonexistent up in Bellingham when I was there for school, except for JapanKing who I only got to play once or twice). Now I’ve got tons of stable competition that I’m making the most of, and… I blame part of my shitty execution before on my past sticks (and not having the same stick at home as I used at the arcade)… I really can’t tell you how much I love using Korean sticks for 3D fighters. I feel like all the difficult movements are 10x easier to learn and do on these sticks. Rubber instead of a spring, small smooth bat, not too loose, not to stiff.
Anyway, just know that, even when I’m out of state, I’ll be doing everything I can to help Seattle Tekken. =)