I think very highly of Sirlin for daring to rebalance a sacred relic.
That takes guts knowing the flamers would be concentrated on your head.
Unfortunately many including myself don’t agree with the way the game was rebalanced.
As for the quality of the game, the source code is apparently a nightmare to reverse engineer, the art isn’t his fault and the whole thing was rushed. You can bet strings were pulled in many areas + the whole game was not in Capcoms interest to succeed.
Only way a proper sequel to SF2 is ever gonna see the light of day and succeed is outside of Capcom’s influence on a whole new engine with the same frame and hitbox data as ST. It’ll also have to be on pc. Fuck new age consoles, they are horrible.
Yeah, both the download size and cost of multiple patches hindered what could have been. Sirlin did some really great things, and fought to do it right, even if we didn’t agree with him 100% on all of the changes (many of which he had no control over, such as the artwork). And yes, his efforts did bring a lot of new players into the fold, such as Voltech and SnakeEyez. Personally, I’ve been playing SFII since the game first hit arcades, but HDR is still my favorite, along with ST and HSFII following very closely.
newegg, the rebalancing thread is for theory and craft discussion; a hypothetical situation where we can dream what we want for a SFII game and iron it out amongst our peers. This one is here to allow people to both speak their peace regarding things they like or don’t with HDR’s changes, pure and simple. Rebalancing talk belongs there, not here, and so far this thread has stayed pretty well on-track. It’s also been one of (if not the most) active threads in the HDR forum recently, which says a lot.
Regarding both HDR Fei and Gief…I absolutely agree that they’ve gotten better, but top tier? They both have significant weaknesses in ways that the other tops don’t. Fei’s chicken wings can’t trap due to their added recovery; even neutral jumping moves can allow you to escape, or at the very worst reset. Gief’s Banishing Flats allow him to cover space both faster and safer than before, sure, but you can still bait his (admittedly better) lariats.
me and a handful of people are working on a couple of fighting game engines right now (completely 2d though) We need a bit more time for other projects. so once we got a prototype with 2-3 characters it’s going on hiatus (our goal is to get this done by fall)… but when it comes time to work on it again. you can be sure there’ll be huge influences from ST…
I’ve leant more people in the West seem to use Zangief on this now than I ever saw on regular Super Turbo. Also, Chun-Li drew the short straw.
Still not really sure why Sagat was given the ability to juggle Tiger Knees… did D.S. ever explain that one? Not being able to kick laggers from the lobby is kinda retarded as well. Oh well. Maybe one day we will get Alpha 2 on there, pure arcade port, relatively lagless, decent search options, you know, like we had for free on GGPO in like 2006 (a gaming lifetime ago now).
Sagat has juggling Tiger Knees because of Sirlin’s global fix to multiple hit moves on the ground which did not knock down properly. When he realized the side effect of juggles for Sagat was fun, he didn’t try to tweak it further, beyond reducing damage and stun to compensate.
I like that many people are debating tier placement in HDR. Frankly, so long as everyone has competitive options that aren’t grossly overpowered (like the problems O.Sagat and Claw had in ST), its nice to have a shake-up.
Dhalsim is still good, balrog is still the best, vega is still the best, etc.
Fei long and cammy got better, but I don’t know if they actually jumped up in the tier placement, their matchups got better but they didn’t become dominating
I think that is the beauty of HDR, the tiers didn’t really change much and the game isn’t hugely different from ST, but the tiers are much closer together now and most of the match ups are more even. In ST there is a much more noticeable gap between the “Big Three” and everyone else, where in HDR everyone is much closer to the middle (which is what Sirlin was shooting for).
Agreed. The top still feel like the best, but lost some of the more spammable tactics; the bottom all got some really nice tools thrown in (though sometimes at the cost of some other good techniques). Where the lower characters have ended up is still very open, which is a sign that something was done right overall here.
Hmmm, what else have I learned…fake fireball recovers too fast. With Ryu against much of the cast, it’s fake fireball -> SRK, sweep, or another fireball you land on. Also, being able to speed recover one of the better sweeps in the game is a bit much.
Several of the changes made to augment lesser-used moves increased ranges or capabilities of a few characters in matches they were already strong in. Now while several of the underdogs in those matches did get their own tricks, they have to try to win harder now.
Guile or Ken vs. T.Hawk are perfect examples of this. They can range him out better thanks to wider arcs on anti-air moves. Ken’s fully invincible strong SRK beats Hawk’s DP install cleanly as well. Hawk can’t safely attempt a throw, so it’s much easier for good Guiles and Kens to keep him out accordingly. Safe dive is nice, but it’s hardly the game-changer Sirlin thought it would be (though I love it against Honda, Dic, and Boxer). All of these were good additions; it’s just that there should have been more when a character loses some of his/her most reliable options.
Hawk’s far RH is effective vs Ryu but moreso vs Ken, due to the 1 frame longer startup on Ken’s Hadokens. Vs Ryu, Hawk is apt to trade more often with the Hadoken, which is not a good trade as he gets knocked down if it’s a Flame Hadoken. But vs Ken he can often stuff the Hadoken before it even starts up.
But that’s when Ken switches to psychic Jab Shoryuken…muahhahah
St.strong that shit, shuts down Hawk’s standing pokes. No need to take unnecessary risks with uppercuts, unless you really want to style on them, and go for that delicious damage.