I did not know this. Thanks for the info.
I say savagely exactly in that sense; it is Hawk’s one tool that will keep Ken honest, the number on thing on their list that they don’t want to be against T.Hawk. If Ken is dancing in and out and tries to sneak in a walk up knee bash or Cr.Roundhouse, he’ll get stuck with St.Roundhouse. If he tries to psychic DP for some random reason, you can stuff it after he whiffs, and if he tries to reversal again, you can stuff that as well. Point it, the opposing (assumingly capable) Ken will realize what kind of game is going on. Blitzfu was also correct about the fireball punishment, and why it is much more effective on Ken than Ryu because of that tiny reason.
Jizzon, if you can smack Ken with it, say like, twice in a row, he cannot afford to take a third immediate hit. Otherwise he will get stunned the majority of the time, and then its completely over for him regardless of his health. A very pressured, and twisted guessing game will ensue from this, and that slight pressure is all Hawk needs not only against Ken, but against anyone to win.
Eltrouble, you can St.Strong that all you want, but if that’s all your focusing on you will get walk up Typhooned at the very first glimpse of opportunity. I’ll trade the whole guessing game for that disgusting damage and pressure.
I really started noticing this whole strategy after playing tons and tons of matches with RoyalPhlush. Not only in our casuals, but when I fought his Ken last year at Frosty Faustings, and that guy is one bulldozer of a Ken. Things became much harder once he switched to Ryu.
Well, no, that’s not ALL you should be focusing on, but it’s one arsenal in both Ryu and Ken’s toolset that will help against his st.RH. In any case, if he’s abusing the st.rh, you can space out a well-timed walk up sweep to beat it. This matchup primarily becomes a pure ground game match, while watching for opportunities that T.Hawk might sneak in a quick typhoon or jump jab, both of which should be met with strong counters.
Kens fireball is 3/2 frames more startup than ryu’s (3 for blue, 2 for red)
Actually Ken’s Hadoken is 2 frames slower than Ryu (11f startup for Ryu, 13f startup for Ken). I was thinking of O.Ken when I mentioned 1 frame (12f startup for O.Ken).
Ryu’s Blue and Flame Hadokens have the exact same startup.
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/ryu/bluehado.html
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/ryu/redhado.html
Quite a bit of the frame data and what moves are cancellable are still incorrect on papasi’s site. It’s still a great reference though. The best place for the most accurate info is the ST Wiki.
In ST, N.Ryu’s start-up is identical for both fireballs; O.Ryu’s blue fireball starts up and recovers one frame faster than the red one.
Are you sure N.Ryu’s blue fireball isn’t 1 frame faster than his red? I swear that it feels like it recovers slightly faster than Red, and is far more useful in the zoning game for it.
This I didn’t know, thanks. It’s funny, it doesn’t feel any different when using O.Ryu’s Flame Hadokens from Blue Hados even though it’s 1 frame. But I can definitely feel N.Ken’s 1 frame difference from O.Ken.
According to the frame data, nryus blue and red hadokens have the same recovery and startup. I agree that blue fireballs do “feel” better for zoning. I think the reason is that blue fireballs do more stun. If the opponent blocks the fireball they will be “frozen” for a longer time when you throw a blue one. This of course means you could walk forward for a longer time or do other things to give you better positioning.
I thought blue fireballs do more stun, and not hit stun. In any case, Papercut and I always felt that Valle was able to make such pixel-perfect uppercuts due to his use of the blue fireball. That’s why it always seems like he’s able to recover quicker and punish the jump ins so quickly. Just a theory, of course.
Nah, he’s just so tight on his execution that it warps physics. 
One thing that was learned was to check wtf was going on with a certain red-haired shoto’s jab srk 
Would the ‘old’ characters in HDR be the ‘new’ characters in ST? or would they be the ‘old’ ‘old’ characters in ST?
They are the old old characters
What have we learned, indeed. Here’s something I just found about T.Hawk in HDR:
Sirlin claimed, “The HD Remixed version is kind of a ‘greatest hits’ of T.Hawk’s moves, so he gets to keep his super and his ability to soften throws, and he also gets the better normal attacks from Old T.Hawk.”
However, his crouching forward retained the same (worse) hitboxes as ST N.Hawk. Check this out:
ST O.Hawk:
ST N.Hawk:
HDR T.Hawk:
I discovered this while playing around and noticing that something felt off in footsies after switching back and forth in both Classic and Remixed training modes. All this time, and I never noticed until doing an A-B comparison to verify with hitboxes on. Looked them up on the ST Wiki and Rufus’ site (thanks again, contributors), and sure enough, it’s there.
So T.Hawk not only still has his reversal bug after all of the other ones were fixed, but he’s accidentally weaker in one of his more critical pokes. Figures.
Nice detective work. Now I’ll dream about how this was the final straw for Capcom to come back in and give us that final, perfect patch.
Oh another thing about the stupid fake fireball move- if you try tick throwing by walking up to the opponent as Ryu, crouch down to light kick, then throw, you will often get a fake fireball (NOT what you want, as it leaves you very vulnerable) because when you release the light kick button, and do that motion, it will still count as a special move and have you go into the fake fb move instead of throw. Ironic because I know Sirlin said something to the effect that throws are always what you wanted to do and even if you are allergic to throws, you should still want and intend to do them even though you don’t realize it.
The menus give you a sound effect when you press it quickly, even though the cursor has not moved to highlight a different item. I.e. right when the menu loads, change the highlighted item e.g. custom ranked “remix” to “classic” and you’ll often hear the “ding” sound effect but it won’t actually highlight the different item. Also, it’s common to play someone in ranked, and after the match immediately go to find another ranked match and you’ll see what appears to be an available match, only to have it be a fake.
I can see where you’re coming from, but quite a few combo strings involve holding the button while pressing another so the negative edge doesn’t come out. The short/LK button generally falls under a player’s thumb or index finger as well, so you shouldn’t have any problem pressing your fingers on any number of buttons you’re trying to throw with. The overly-wide special command inputs make this a little rougher if you don’t hold the button as well.
There are a slew of Backbone-related issues to the game; those last two you’ve mentioned definitely bug me, too. I wish we could take a page from the patch notes they just did for 3SO, mainly regarding the online modes and options.
I don’t really find that to be a problem when trying to do tick throws. Generally, between each motion that I make that might overlap with another (walk up cr.mk xx fireball, or a tick throw in this case), I try to to reach neutral before doing each motion. So if you do it in this fashion, instead of riding the gate, it’s not an issue.
But the fake fireball is a pretty powerful tool, that wasn’t really necessary to have. Ryu’s design is one of the most balanced and perfect character designs in fighting game history, and it didn’t need a single change to it. Maybe the only change I would make, is to make it so that when his fireball connects on the first hit, all the other hits are guaranteed to hit. This is an issue when fighting against Sagat and Dhalsim.